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We Study Billionaires

TIP857: S&P Global, Novo, Deckers Brands w/ Stig Brodersen, Tobias Carlisle, & Hari Ramachandra

87 min episode · 3 min read
·

Episode

87 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Investing, Fundraising & VC, Sales & Revenue

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • ✓Novo Nordisk downside protection: At 12x forward earnings versus Eli Lilly's 24x, Novo's base case offers 8-9% annual returns including a 4.5% dividend yield with a 50% payout ratio. The market prices Novo as permanently second in GLP-1 drugs, but its oral semaglutide pill is already tracking toward $2B in annual revenue, and amycretin enters Phase 3 trials with results expected by 2028.
  • ✓S&P Global ratings moat structure: The ratings duopoly between S&P (45% share) and Moody's (40%) functions as a complement, not a competition — issuers need both ratings simultaneously. Regulatory mandates reinforce this, and companies that skip major agency ratings face adverse selection, paying higher borrowing costs. Surveillance fees on existing ratings create recurring revenue beyond initial issuance, compounding the moat over time.
  • ✓S&P Global valuation entry point: Stig initiated a 1% position at $399, his first new holding in over a year, estimating intrinsic value at $450-$500. Revenue guidance of 6-8% growth combined with a ~2% buyback yield and ~1% dividend suggests low double-digit annual returns. The PE compressed from 40x in 2021 to 23x today entirely on multiple contraction, not earnings deterioration.
  • ✓Market Intelligence AI risk is overstated: S&P Global's Market Intelligence segment, roughly equal to ratings in revenue but generating only 17.9% of operating profit, faces disruption from AI-native competitors like AlphaSense ($600M ARR) and Rogo ($50M ARR). However, this segment represents only 6-8% of S&P's total market cap if spun off, making its disruption immaterial to the overall investment thesis even in a worst-case scenario.
  • ✓Deckers capital allocation as downside floor: Deckers carries $1.6B net cash, zero debt, and directs 80% of free cash flow to buybacks, reducing share count 7% year-over-year. The buyback authorization of $4.7B exceeds 40% of market capitalization. In a bear scenario assuming 2% growth and an 8x terminal multiple, fair value lands at $72 versus the $77 current price, limiting downside materially.

What It Covers

Stig Brodersen, Tobias Carlisle, and Hari Ramachandra pitch three stocks trading at significant discounts: Novo Nordisk at 12x forward earnings after a 40% decline, S&P Global at 23x PE after five years of sideways movement, and Deckers Outdoor at 11x earnings with $1.6B net cash on its balance sheet.

Key Questions Answered

  • •Novo Nordisk downside protection: At 12x forward earnings versus Eli Lilly's 24x, Novo's base case offers 8-9% annual returns including a 4.5% dividend yield with a 50% payout ratio. The market prices Novo as permanently second in GLP-1 drugs, but its oral semaglutide pill is already tracking toward $2B in annual revenue, and amycretin enters Phase 3 trials with results expected by 2028.
  • •S&P Global ratings moat structure: The ratings duopoly between S&P (45% share) and Moody's (40%) functions as a complement, not a competition — issuers need both ratings simultaneously. Regulatory mandates reinforce this, and companies that skip major agency ratings face adverse selection, paying higher borrowing costs. Surveillance fees on existing ratings create recurring revenue beyond initial issuance, compounding the moat over time.
  • •S&P Global valuation entry point: Stig initiated a 1% position at $399, his first new holding in over a year, estimating intrinsic value at $450-$500. Revenue guidance of 6-8% growth combined with a ~2% buyback yield and ~1% dividend suggests low double-digit annual returns. The PE compressed from 40x in 2021 to 23x today entirely on multiple contraction, not earnings deterioration.
  • •Market Intelligence AI risk is overstated: S&P Global's Market Intelligence segment, roughly equal to ratings in revenue but generating only 17.9% of operating profit, faces disruption from AI-native competitors like AlphaSense ($600M ARR) and Rogo ($50M ARR). However, this segment represents only 6-8% of S&P's total market cap if spun off, making its disruption immaterial to the overall investment thesis even in a worst-case scenario.
  • •Deckers capital allocation as downside floor: Deckers carries $1.6B net cash, zero debt, and directs 80% of free cash flow to buybacks, reducing share count 7% year-over-year. The buyback authorization of $4.7B exceeds 40% of market capitalization. In a bear scenario assuming 2% growth and an 8x terminal multiple, fair value lands at $72 versus the $77 current price, limiting downside materially.
  • •Scenario analysis framework for consumer brands: Tobias structures Deckers across three scenarios: bear case (2% growth, 8x multiple) yields $72 fair value; base case (3% growth, 11x multiple) yields $113; bull case (4% growth, 14x multiple) yields $160. He assigns 20% probability to each tail and 60% to the base case, producing a probability-weighted fair value of roughly $110-$115 against a $77 current price.

Notable Moment

Hari points out that if S&P Global's Market Intelligence segment were stripped out and its earnings removed, the remaining ratings and indices businesses would trade at roughly 38-39x earnings — nearly identical to S&P Global's 2021 peak multiple — suggesting the market is effectively discounting the entire Market Intelligence division to near zero.

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Episode Transcript

You're listening one:fifty to TIP. Welcome back to The Investor's Podcast, episode eight fifty seven. In today's episode, I'm joined by my friends and fellow value investors, Tobias Carlisle and Hai Ramachandra. We're doing another round of stock pitches and this time all three are stocks the market is falling out of love with. Stig We kick things off with Harry's pitch of Novo. And two years ago, it was the most valuable company in Europe. Today, it most certainly is not. And it trades at 12 times forward earnings. Hardy explains why he thinks the bad news is already more than reflected in the price and where he sees hidden value that the market does not appreciate. And I pitched S and P Global. It's a wide moat business with a long runway to grow, and I took a 1% position just two hours before we recorded at $399 a share. And this is my first new position in more than a year. And during my pitch, I hope you'll find out why there is more than meets the eye and why the risk of AI disruption is overblown. And finally, Toby walks us through Deckers, the owner of Hoeghard and Ark, at 11 times earnings with plenty of net cash on the balance sheet. This is a classic Toby pick and I mean that as a compliment. I almost want to say that it can't go wrong, but as we all know, those would be famous last words. All right, let's jump to with more than 200,000,000 downloads, we have interviewed the world's best investors, studied deeply the principles of value investing, and uncovered many compelling investment opportunities. We focus on understanding businesses and intrinsic value, investing accordingly, and sharing everything we learn with you. This show is not investment advice. It's intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed by hosts and guests are solely their own, and they may have investment in the securities discussed. Now for your host, Stig Brodersen. Welcome to The Investors Podcast. I'm your host, Stig Brodersen. And today for our Mastermind discussion, as always, I'm here with my friends, Harry and Toby. Jens, what's going on? Hey, Stig. Hey, Harry. How are you? Hey, Toby, it's Dick. Good to see you both, and hello to everyone. Happy to be back. Three:thirty Fantastic. Yeah. It's so good seeing you, and let's just jump right into it. Harry, let's hear your pick first. Yeah. Sure. I think we were just discussing before we started recording. It's been a brutal market and a confusing one too. There are a few winners, few maybe winners who are not yet public, but then there are a lot of losers in the game. So I was looking at some of the ones that has lost its shine or the love was much loved before but not anymore kind of opportunities. So my pick today is one of those companies which two years ago was the …

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