Matt Berninger - 07/04/23

What It Covers

Matt Berninger of The National discusses his songwriting process, the band's evolution from Alligator through Boxer, overcoming severe depression and writer's block during album creation, and how music captures emotional moments across time.

Key Questions Answered

• •Creative Process Over Ambition: Berninger writes by reacting emotionally to music the band sends, never starting with concepts or trends. He records 30+ mumbled vocal passes, extracts phrases that resonate, then builds lyrics around those anchors. The process requires genuine emotional connection—he cannot write unless the music lights up his internal "spider web" of feelings and memories.
• •Intentional Artistic Pivot: After Alligator's success with screaming vocals, Berninger deliberately avoided that approach on Boxer to prevent being typecast. He wanted the band to explore different emotional territories with each album, taking listeners down new "unlit alleys" rather than repeating formulas. This pivot happened while falling in love with his wife Corinne, a New Yorker fiction editor who influenced his lyrical direction.
• •Depression Recovery Through Small Progress: During severe depression, medication raised Berninger from "level zero to level two"—enough to breathe but not thrive. Recovery came through incremental studio work, staying close to his daughter, and eventually returning to normal routines. The key was making tiny progress on songs even when 90% felt unusable, chipping away until momentum built naturally over months.
• •Imperfection Creates Connection: Research shows songs with technical errors, wrong chords, or strange harmonies resonate more deeply than technically perfect versions. Berninger embraces this, letting adolescent or infantile song versions exist rather than over-polishing. He sings melodies that go against the grain of the music, creating the National's distinctive sound through these "odd fits" rather than conventional melodic choices.
• •Music as Personal Soundtrack: Berninger describes how specific albums capture moments in time—Tom Waits' Early Years instantly returns him to his parents' fireplace at age 19. He writes to create this same effect, diving into genuine fears, desires, and memories to spark that magical connection. The goal is lighting up listeners' entire "spider web" of identity across time, not conveying specific messages.