David Lipsky - 07/18/23
Episode
113 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Leadership, Design & UX, Product & Tech Trends
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Physical Description Technique: Combine external appearance with internal character traits in single descriptions. Example approach: describe someone as having "the catcher's mitt face of a farmer" or "owl glasses, weedy brows, friendly and concerned, a man who would use complicated phrases then take trouble to explain." This dual-layer technique appears throughout the book, providing both visual clarity and psychological insight simultaneously, making characters memorable and three-dimensional for readers.
- ✓Draft Management Strategy: Write first drafts quickly with placeholder dialogue and rough sequences, treating it like "a crappy little elf walked in overnight and did all the work." Rewriting proves comparatively easier than initial composition. Step away from drafts then return as a reader, not a writer, bringing decades of reading experience to bear on limited writing experience. This leverages superior reader judgment to improve work systematically.
- ✓Maintaining Reader Engagement: Design books to function as "vitamin pills" for communication skills, with memorable lines readers will recall in future conversations. Test whether descriptions and jokes work by reading them aloud to trusted readers with known taste. Provide three to six alternate versions of key lines and let others choose without revealing preferences. This approach treats writing as social performance done at remove.
- ✓Writing Difficult Material: When writing about subjects that provoke strong moral reactions, physical location changes can enable different perspectives. Lipsky couldn't write about Reagan at his desk, moved to the sofa, then finally wrote lying in bed. Removing moral judgment from prose allows readers to form their own conclusions while maintaining narrative momentum. The goal: make readers feel appropriate outrage without authorial hectoring.
- ✓Historical Pattern Recognition: The aspirin industry's Reye's syndrome denial (1980s) established templates for future disinformation campaigns. The Committee on the Care of Children blocked warning labels despite four studies showing aspirin caused fatal illness in children with viruses. Approximately 1,407 children died. This seventy-year pattern of corporate denial tactics repeats across industries, from tobacco to climate science.
What It Covers
David Lipsky discusses his book The Parrot and the Igloo, which chronicles seventy years of climate science denial through character-driven narrative. The conversation explores craft techniques for writing compelling nonfiction, including how to describe people vividly, manage multiple drafts, and maintain reader engagement while covering difficult subject matter without moralizing or losing narrative momentum.
Key Questions Answered
- •Physical Description Technique: Combine external appearance with internal character traits in single descriptions. Example approach: describe someone as having "the catcher's mitt face of a farmer" or "owl glasses, weedy brows, friendly and concerned, a man who would use complicated phrases then take trouble to explain." This dual-layer technique appears throughout the book, providing both visual clarity and psychological insight simultaneously, making characters memorable and three-dimensional for readers.
- •Draft Management Strategy: Write first drafts quickly with placeholder dialogue and rough sequences, treating it like "a crappy little elf walked in overnight and did all the work." Rewriting proves comparatively easier than initial composition. Step away from drafts then return as a reader, not a writer, bringing decades of reading experience to bear on limited writing experience. This leverages superior reader judgment to improve work systematically.
- •Maintaining Reader Engagement: Design books to function as "vitamin pills" for communication skills, with memorable lines readers will recall in future conversations. Test whether descriptions and jokes work by reading them aloud to trusted readers with known taste. Provide three to six alternate versions of key lines and let others choose without revealing preferences. This approach treats writing as social performance done at remove.
- •Writing Difficult Material: When writing about subjects that provoke strong moral reactions, physical location changes can enable different perspectives. Lipsky couldn't write about Reagan at his desk, moved to the sofa, then finally wrote lying in bed. Removing moral judgment from prose allows readers to form their own conclusions while maintaining narrative momentum. The goal: make readers feel appropriate outrage without authorial hectoring.
- •Historical Pattern Recognition: The aspirin industry's Reye's syndrome denial (1980s) established templates for future disinformation campaigns. The Committee on the Care of Children blocked warning labels despite four studies showing aspirin caused fatal illness in children with viruses. Approximately 1,407 children died. This seventy-year pattern of corporate denial tactics repeats across industries, from tobacco to climate science.
- •Structural Storytelling Choice: Begin books about negative subjects with 100 pages celebrating positive human ambition and achievement. Lipsky opens with Edison creating electricity distribution and Tesla's innovations. This establishes authorial sympathy for American dreams and innovation before examining how those same impulses became destructive. Readers then understand the writer isn't a scold but someone documenting how beneficial traits produced harmful outcomes.
- •Professional Reading Practice: Keep books that restore mental sharpness during travel or fatigue. Lipsky reads Martin Amis essays for forty minutes when waking up "stupid" to restore cognitive function. This treats certain writing as performance-enhancing tools for professional communicators. Identify which authors reliably elevate thinking quality and return to them systematically rather than treating all reading as equivalent.
Notable Moment
Lipsky reveals his conclusion after researching seventy years of climate inaction: society proved too unintelligent to survive. Despite scientists predicting consequences accurately in 1956 (verified fifty-six years later), decision-makers chose daily inaction for seven decades. This wasn't one large failure but accumulated daily decisions not to address known problems, comparable to perpetually postponing tax filing or quitting smoking tomorrow.
Episode Transcript
Hey. This is the moment. I'm Brian Koppelman. Thanks for listening. My guest today is David Lipsky. He has a new book, The Parrot and the Igloo. This is his second time on the podcast. There were a lot of fireworks last time, and, it was super fun, and I got a ton of great feedback. And I remember last time sort of challenging you to live up to your potential because I had I had so loved your other books. You know, there aren't that many people where I've read all their books. And I think I've read all your books. And, I've had the West Point book on my bookshelf since it came out. I I I was trying to remember, man, when do when we met first, the first time we met and had lunch together, was it right after the West Point book? Yeah. We pulled it out. Before the Wallace book. Yeah. It's probably like a year. Pull back. Sorry. Probably like a year or two after the West Point book came out. But that was the subject we were talking about. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Or Rich, I mean That that that was our jumping off point. Then we talked about, every everything else. And you know how much I loved, the the Wallace book. Because, you know, David David, I think, wrote the best book about West Point, or a book about West Point that is the most that gives you the clearest sense of of what it was like to be at West Point when the world was different, but still what it was like to be at West Point. When those people were facing slightly different issues, but still, there. And then wrote the memoir about, his couple of days with David Foster Wallace that became the movie. Say the title right? End of the Tour. Right. That's the movie, but the book is Oh, of course. Of course you end up becoming yourself. You end up becoming yourself. But his new book, The Parrot and the Igloo. So let me so so, Brian, when you came one reason I was so eager to, a, that was, the Wallace book is about a great conversation, but, like, I think I think you and I only talked for, like, two and a half hours or hour and fifty minutes, but that was a that was the best conversation I had that year. So when you and I have been scheduling this, I keep saying to your assistants. I was like, he could he could have me come down at one in the morning. I would come down at three to me. I wrote you myself. That's what I wrote you myself. Too. Yeah. But I wrote you to say because yeah, man. But I wanted to quote I wanted to quote Jussie Smollett. He was I remember after the thing with Subway, he was explaining to a newscaster why he thought he'd be …
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Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode
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Books

by David Lipsky
“David Lipsky discusses his book The Parrot and the Igloo, which chronicles seventy years of climate science denial through character-driven narrative.”
- EssaysRecommended
by Martin Amis
“Lipsky reads Martin Amis essays for forty minutes when waking up "stupid" to restore cognitive function.”
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