Ep186: Bruce Levine & Mags McCarthy on a Song About Science and Hope

What It Covers

CAR T cell pioneer Bruce Levine from University of Pennsylvania and Irish country musician Mags McCarthy describe their collaboration creating "Ring That Bell," a country song about cancer immunotherapy. Their partnership began in November 2021 after a family member's blood cancer diagnosis prompted McCarthy to cold-email Levine, who happened to be in Galway, Ireland that same day.

Key Questions Answered

• •Science communication gap: CP Snow's 1959 book "The Two Cultures" identified the divide between science and humanities — a gap still unresolved today. Levine argues scientists must actively bridge this divide because public funding, vaccine acceptance, and support for genome editing and T cell therapies all depend on non-scientists understanding and trusting the work. AI tools can now translate technical papers into fifth- or tenth-grade language as a starting practice.
• •Cold outreach works across disciplines: McCarthy emailed Levine two days after a family member's blood cancer diagnosis, having never met him, simply explaining her situation and musician background. Levine responded within minutes — and happened to be in Ireland that day. Scientists regularly receive such inquiries and typically respond. Reaching out directly to researchers, even at top institutions, can yield real-time guidance and connections to clinical trial options.
• •Patient-centered storytelling over technical accuracy: The original song draft was too science-heavy to resonate emotionally. Levine and McCarthy restructured the lyrics around the patient and caregiver perspective, naming the song after the bell-ringing milestone used at cancer centers worldwide. Centering human experience rather than mechanism made the content accessible to mass audiences while preserving scientific accuracy — a replicable framework for any science communication project.
• •Independent creative projects avoid conflicts of interest: Levine and McCarthy funded "Ring That Bell" entirely themselves, seeking no financial support from CAR T manufacturers or pharmaceutical companies. This independence preserves credibility when the song is used as an educational tool. The accompanying website ringthatbellsong.com links directly to CAR T clinical trial information, functioning as a patient awareness resource without commercial bias attached.
• •PSA distribution through country radio reaches underserved audiences: Through Nashville manager Charla McCoy, the song's 60-second public service announcement is being distributed to country and Christian radio stations across the US, which are legally required to air a set number of PSAs monthly. Levine is also scheduled to appear at CMA Awards week to brief major country radio stations — a venue that has never previously featured a scientist or physician in that capacity.
• •Awareness gaps reduce CAR T access more than eligibility: Levine identifies physician and patient unawareness — not just price or complexity — as a primary reason eligible patients don't receive CAR T therapies. Directing patients to educational resources about CAR T can also surface other treatment options they wouldn't have discovered otherwise. Raising clinical trial enrollment awareness accelerates medical progress broadly, making public outreach a direct contributor to research outcomes, not just a peripheral activity.