Patti Smith on the One Desire That Lasts Forever

It wasn't my goal in life to become a rich and famous rock star or, you know, become like an arrogant asshole. You know? I just, like, I wanted to do something important, hopefully, or something of worth. So back in 2010, I picked up this book that everyone seemed to be reading that year, Just Kids by Patti Smith. I had vaguely known who Patti Smith was, musician and artist sometimes called the godmother of punk. Change to when you're dreaming, to when you're dreaming, to when you're dreaming. I didn't really know her. So I picked up the book without any real expectations, and man, did I love that book. One of the few I've read many times since. Just Kids is this memoir of Smith's early years in New York and her relationship with the artist Robert Mapplethorpe. This is the New York art scene of the sixties and the seventies. Smith is living in the Chelsea Hotel bumping into Bob Dylan and Allen Ginsberg and Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix and Andy Warhol. It's this moment of ferment that I wish I could have seen or touched like just for a day for an hour. But just kids, the beauty of it, the reason I think it worked for so many people won the National Book Award that year, is it it's one of those rare books that makes you feel what a moment must have been like. And feeling to me is the startling quality of Patti Smith's music and her writing. She makes you feel what she felt. She channels moments rather than describing them. And reading her makes me interested in what life must feel like to her. What is it like to go around in Patty Smith's mind to be that open to experience and energy and intuition? What is the texture of the world that she lives in? Smith's life's book is Bread of Angels, which like just kids is a memoir, but spans a much wider range of her life. And it's much more personal in a way, much more experiential. I loved this one too. Smith also writes a substack these days, and she's on tour right now celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of her iconic album, Horses. She's someone who has stayed vibrant across many different eras of American art, and so I think she's someone to learn from. As always, my email, heatherclineshow@nytimes.com. Patty Smith, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. So you seem like you were a wonderfully unusual child. And I want to begin by having you tell me about the time you spent the morning talking to a tortoise. Well, I I suppose I was unusual. And when you're yourself as a child, you don't really understand that. You're just who you are. But I think I I I, when I saw Pan's Labyrinth, the girl in Pan's Labyrinth reminded me very much of myself because she freely spoke to, …