Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor Say the End of the World is Now on the Table

If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Hi. I'm Tabitha Brown. With YouTube Premium, I get ad free videos, offline downloads, and so much more. Try YouTube Premium for two months free. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. We didn't write the book because we think these people are fascinating. Mean, we we wrote this book because we want people to fight them and beat them. I'm David Marchese, and today, I'm interviewing Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor. They've written a book together called End Times Fascism and the Fight for the Living World, which argues that a powerful coalition of tech billionaires, anti immigration operatives, and many on the religious right have united around a shared belief that the world is ending. But rather than prevent collapse, they want to accelerate it. We call them traitors, but not traitors to nation, not traitors to a flag, or a border, but traitors to creation, like traitors to life. Klein has been a prominent voice on the left for decades, writing acclaimed books like The Shock Doctrine, which is about the link between capitalism and crisis. And Taylor is an activist and organizer who cofounded The Debt Collective, a group advocating for debtors' rights that came out of the Occupy Wall Street movement. Because you live beyond your means, but because you are denied the means to live. Here's my conversation with Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore The Times for free without paywalls during your first month in the New York Times app. Just download the app, and we hope you enjoy it. Okay. On to the interview. Astra and and Naomi, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me today, thank you for being here. Really glad to be here. Thank you so much for having us. So the book is called end times fascism and the fight for the living world. Just to start, Naomi, the most obvious question, what is end times fascism? So end times fascism is a fascism that is very much in conversation with planetary scale existential crises. A fascism that is taking the end of this world for granted. And I think we thought really long and hard about the politics of putting any kind of qualifier on a a word like fascism. And the reason we ended up deciding that that it it did need that is is when we really thought about how our world has changed since Mussolini declared himself a fascist. Our fascists have weapons that last century fascists couldn't dream of, and there was no atomic bomb. Hitler and Mussolini died before the Trinity test. They didn't understand that fossil fuels were warming the planet. So our world has changed. Our world has become more dangerous, and and fascism has changed in response and has kind of made peace with the idea of …