An Expert on Conflict Says Your Relationships Are Doomed Without It

This message is brought to you by Apple Card, shave ice by the beach, a trip to the state fair, and a throwback flick at the local drive in. They're more than just items to check off the summer bucket list. They're also opportunities to earn 2% daily cash back when you use your Apple Card with Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card now and use in minutes with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. I'm David Marchese. And today, I'm interviewing conflict resolution facilitator and author Priya Parker. For many of us, myself included, conflict, be it at work or at home or in society, feels like something to avoid. It's combustible, irresolvable, or just plain uncomfortable. But in her new book, The Art of Fighting, Parker argues that we should fight more and learn how to do it well. Parker, who also wrote the best selling twenty eighteen book, The Art of Gathering, is drawing on her work mediating conflict on college campuses, at Fortune 500 companies, in cultural institutions, and within families. So how and when should we fight? Here's my conversation with Priya Parker. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore the Times for free without paywalls during your first month in The New York Times app. Just download the app, and we hope you enjoy it. Okay. On to the interview. Pria, Priya, thank you for being here. I'm very excited to talk with you about conflict. Thank you for having me. So your previous book, The Art of Gathering, which I think was published in 2018. Yep. So it's been a little while, but that was all about, like, healthy and productive group activity. And, of course, the new book is about conflict, and it's hard not to wonder if that suggests something grim about the trajectory of the world since then. So so why did you feel compelled to write the new book? I am deeply interested in human connection. And the art of gathering is about human connection. And the art of fighting is about human connection. And I decided to write this book in part because as a conflict resolution facilitator, I saw that that in so many of the organizations that I work in and so many of the families I work with and so many of the friend groups that I am a part of or see, they're often actually falling apart because they're afraid to fight. And so much of what I find is that organizations and friend groups, basically, when conflict arises, oscillate between either unhealthy peace Yeah. Conflict aversion, avoidance, people believe pretend everything's fine, and unhealthy conflict, right, which is either escalation or domination or abuse. And so I wrote the art of fighting to basically say, look, this is a deeply, deeply important …