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Against the Rules

Michael Lewis Interviews His Producer

25 min episode · 2 min read
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Episode

25 min

Read time

2 min

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Cold case reporting methodology: Contact subjects directly at their homes using public records like white pages, bring cookies as goodwill gesture, and leverage personal connections to prosecutors to establish trust and gain access to reluctant witnesses decades after conviction.
  • Prosecutor relationship dynamics: Federal prosecutors rarely track defendants after conviction despite profound impact on their lives. Reconnecting prosecutors with former defendants through journalism reveals untold human stories and provides closure for both parties involved in the justice system.
  • Story structure clarity: Define your narrative in one sentence before writing begins. For complex multi-character stories, identify the central conflict—in this case, three women opposed by the system where only one can win—to maintain focus throughout reporting and production.
  • Investigative persistence pays off: Tracking down subjects from 1988 case required searching three different Chinatowns across NYC boroughs, leaving notes that went unanswered, until direct doorstep conversations yielded breakthrough interviews with formerly incarcerated women willing to share their stories.

What It Covers

Michael Lewis interviews producer Lydia Jean Cott about her new podcast The Chinatown Sting, which investigates a 1988 federal heroin case involving Chinese-American women caught receiving drug shipments while playing mahjong in Manhattan's Chinatown.

Key Questions Answered

  • Cold case reporting methodology: Contact subjects directly at their homes using public records like white pages, bring cookies as goodwill gesture, and leverage personal connections to prosecutors to establish trust and gain access to reluctant witnesses decades after conviction.
  • Prosecutor relationship dynamics: Federal prosecutors rarely track defendants after conviction despite profound impact on their lives. Reconnecting prosecutors with former defendants through journalism reveals untold human stories and provides closure for both parties involved in the justice system.
  • Story structure clarity: Define your narrative in one sentence before writing begins. For complex multi-character stories, identify the central conflict—in this case, three women opposed by the system where only one can win—to maintain focus throughout reporting and production.
  • Investigative persistence pays off: Tracking down subjects from 1988 case required searching three different Chinatowns across NYC boroughs, leaving notes that went unanswered, until direct doorstep conversations yielded breakthrough interviews with formerly incarcerated women willing to share their stories.

Notable Moment

The first woman arrested faced an impossible choice while agents waited: cooperate and betray her mahjong-playing friend who would receive the next heroin package, or refuse and potentially lose her children while serving ten years to life in prison.

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