TIP795: Mastermind Q1, 2026: Berkshire, Moody's, & BellRing Brands w/ Stig Brodersen, Tobias Carlisle, and Hari Ramachandra
Episode
80 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Productivity, Personal Finance, Investing
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Berkshire Valuation Framework: Break Berkshire into two buckets — operating businesses (apply ~17x multiple to ~$40B normalized earnings = $680B) plus net equities and cash (~$500B) minus debt. This back-of-envelope method produces ~$550 intrinsic value per B-share against a ~$497 trading price, suggesting roughly fair value with ~10% expected annual returns going forward under Greg Abel.
- ✓Greg Abel Compensation Structure: Abel receives a $25M flat base salary with no bonuses or stock options, compared to Oracle's CEO at $138M for a company half Berkshire's size. He purchased ~$170M in Berkshire shares personally. Tobias Carlisle argues a more aligned structure would tie compensation to returns above a 6% hurdle rate on capital managed, measured over rolling five-year periods to prevent short-termism.
- ✓BellRing Brands Valuation Dislocation: BRBR traded at $80 in December 2024 and collapsed to $17 — roughly half Tobias Carlisle's estimated intrinsic value of ~$40. At $17, the stock trades at 12x PE, 9x EV/EBITDA, and an 11% free cash flow yield. The likely cause is GLP-1 drug sentiment, not fundamental deterioration. Three customers — Walmart, Costco, and Amazon — represent 74% of sales, which is a concentration risk to monitor.
- ✓Moody's Competitive Moat Assessment: Moody's and S&P Global jointly control 80% of global credit ratings under NRSRO regulatory status earned over a century. Issuers pay rating fees that are negligible relative to bond offering sizes (Google recently issued $80-100B), enabling 51% operating margins on a capital-light model. The analytics segment (40% of revenue) faces AI disruption risk, but the ratings segment (60% of revenue) is legally protected and unlikely to be deregulated.
- ✓Market Rotation Signal to Watch: Since Q3 2024, small-cap stocks have begun outperforming large-cap, value has begun outperforming growth, and equal-weight S&P 500 has begun outperforming market-cap-weighted. Tobias Carlisle frames this as a historically normal pattern following technological transition periods — similar to post-nifty-50 (1970s) and post-dot-com (2000-2015) rotations — suggesting deep value and small/mid-cap names may outperform for an extended period.
What It Covers
Stig Brodersen, Tobias Carlisle, and Hari Ramachandra each pitch one stock in this Q1 2026 mastermind session: Berkshire Hathaway during its CEO transition to Greg Abel, Moody's credit rating duopoly at a 22% discount, and BellRing Brands protein drinks trading at an 11% free cash flow yield after an 80% price collapse.
Key Questions Answered
- •Berkshire Valuation Framework: Break Berkshire into two buckets — operating businesses (apply ~17x multiple to ~$40B normalized earnings = $680B) plus net equities and cash (~$500B) minus debt. This back-of-envelope method produces ~$550 intrinsic value per B-share against a ~$497 trading price, suggesting roughly fair value with ~10% expected annual returns going forward under Greg Abel.
- •Greg Abel Compensation Structure: Abel receives a $25M flat base salary with no bonuses or stock options, compared to Oracle's CEO at $138M for a company half Berkshire's size. He purchased ~$170M in Berkshire shares personally. Tobias Carlisle argues a more aligned structure would tie compensation to returns above a 6% hurdle rate on capital managed, measured over rolling five-year periods to prevent short-termism.
- •BellRing Brands Valuation Dislocation: BRBR traded at $80 in December 2024 and collapsed to $17 — roughly half Tobias Carlisle's estimated intrinsic value of ~$40. At $17, the stock trades at 12x PE, 9x EV/EBITDA, and an 11% free cash flow yield. The likely cause is GLP-1 drug sentiment, not fundamental deterioration. Three customers — Walmart, Costco, and Amazon — represent 74% of sales, which is a concentration risk to monitor.
- •Moody's Competitive Moat Assessment: Moody's and S&P Global jointly control 80% of global credit ratings under NRSRO regulatory status earned over a century. Issuers pay rating fees that are negligible relative to bond offering sizes (Google recently issued $80-100B), enabling 51% operating margins on a capital-light model. The analytics segment (40% of revenue) faces AI disruption risk, but the ratings segment (60% of revenue) is legally protected and unlikely to be deregulated.
- •Market Rotation Signal to Watch: Since Q3 2024, small-cap stocks have begun outperforming large-cap, value has begun outperforming growth, and equal-weight S&P 500 has begun outperforming market-cap-weighted. Tobias Carlisle frames this as a historically normal pattern following technological transition periods — similar to post-nifty-50 (1970s) and post-dot-com (2000-2015) rotations — suggesting deep value and small/mid-cap names may outperform for an extended period.
- •Berkshire as Capital Parking Strategy: For investors running concentrated portfolios who need equity exposure while awaiting better opportunities, Berkshire offers a practical placeholder: lower drawdowns in bear markets, reasonable valuation versus the S&P 500, and the flexibility to trim positions when high-conviction targets sell off. Buffett himself has compared Berkshire's current role to a utility — a wealth-preservation vehicle rather than a wealth-creation vehicle at trillion-dollar scale.
Notable Moment
Tobias Carlisle points out that Berkshire's massive cash pile may eventually force a policy shift — even a special dividend — because buybacks cannot meaningfully move the needle at trillion-dollar scale, and no single acquisition in a crash would be large enough to deploy the full position. This challenges the long-held no-dividend orthodoxy.
Episode Transcript
You're listening to TIP. In today's episode, I'm as usual joined by my friends and fellow value investors, Tobias Carlisle and Hari Ramachandra. We kick things off with my pitch on Berkshire Hathaway. We break down the investment case as the company transitions leadership to Greg Abel. We discuss what kind of returns investors can reasonably expect from here and whether ABLE's new $25,000,000 compensation package is reasonable and aligned with shareholders. It's certainly a lot more than the $100,000 Buffett took home annually, but not so much compared to the $19,000,000 average pay package for an S and P five hundred CEO whenever you consider the size of Berkshire Hathaway. Then, Hardie walks us through Moody's, one of the highest quality businesses in finance with its requisite remote and dominant position in credit ratings. We debate valuation and long term risks. Then finally, Tobias pitches Bellring Brands, a protein focused consumer company that the market is selling off heavily and currently seems to be offering a appealing valuation. Now, one more quick note before we get into the episode. As we near the Berkshire meeting in May, we'll be hosting a few dinners and socials in Omaha for our TAP Mastermind community. Our events will be a great opportunity to meet kindred spirits in the value investing space, build meaningful relationships, and discuss stock ideas and investing strategies. We'll be closing the group to new applicants at the March. So if you would like to join us in Omaha, you can apply to join the community by visiting the investorspodcast.com/mastermind or sending my co host Clay a note at clay@theinvestorspodcast.com. Since 2014 and through more than 190,000,000 downloads, we break down the principles of value investing and sit down with some of the world's best asset managers. We uncover potential opportunities in the market and explore the intersection between money, happiness, and the art of living a good life. This show is not investment advice. It's intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed by hosts and guests are solely their own, and they may have investments in the securities discussed. Now for your host, Stig Brodersen. Welcome to The Investors Podcast. I'm your host, Stig Brodersen. And today, I'm here with my friends and fellow investors, Tobias and Hari. How are you today, gents? Stig Brodersen (zero twenty seven:forty nine): Hey, Stig. Hey, Hari. Good to see you. Good to see both of you guys. Stig Brodersen (zero twenty seven:forty nine): Yeah. Good to see you both. Thank you for having us, Stig. Stig Brodersen (zero twenty seven:forty nine): It's always great, and with Berkshire coming up, I can't help but pitch it. I know that's not an unknown gem. I know it's a bit of I feel like it's a cliche. I mean, we're talking about a company that's more than a trillion dollars in market cap, and I guess everyone knows it, especially followers of this podcast would know it. So why am I …
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