1409: Lindsay Owens | How Your Own Data Is Used to Overcharge You
Episode
81 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Productivity, Artificial Intelligence, Software Development
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Algorithmic Rent Coordination: RealPage, a Texas-based real estate software company, allegedly facilitated rent price-fixing across thousands of landlords by recommending prices derived from pooled competitor data. The software actively discouraged discounting and encouraged leaving units vacant rather than lowering rents. Human "pricing advisers" called landlords to ensure compliance with recommendations, transforming what appeared to be neutral market data into coordinated price elevation.
- ✓Instacart Surveillance Pricing: A study of 400+ shoppers buying identical 23-item baskets across four cities found price variation on 75% of items, with differences reaching 23% for the same product. Extrapolated across a household's annual grocery spend, a 7% average premium equals roughly $1,200 per year. Instacart attributed differences to routine pricing tests, then quietly acquired the AI company running those experiments after public backlash.
- ✓Comparison Shopping Requires New Tactics: Standard brand-to-brand price comparison is now insufficient. Consumers should compare the same item logged in versus logged out, on the app versus the website versus in-store, and with versus without loyalty program credentials attached. Loyalty programs can produce a "loyalty penalty" where accumulated behavioral data confirms purchase certainty, eliminating any incentive for the retailer to offer discounts.
- ✓Right to Repair Is a Pricing Issue: When manufacturers lock repair access through proprietary software, they create a daisy chain of price extraction: overcharge on purchase, overcharge on parts, monopolize labor, then force repurchase. John Deere has stated farmers do not own the software in their tractors. Threatening to void warranties for third-party repairs is illegal under existing law, though companies continue the practice routinely.
- ✓Dynamic Pricing Shifts from Scarcity to Exploitation: Traditional dynamic pricing managed genuinely scarce resources like airline seats. The current expansion into fast food, casino sundry stores, and grocery apps has no scarcity rationale. Companies now use it to identify and monetize urgency and desperation, such as a parent searching for fever medication or a teenager needing a prom dress same-day, regardless of the shopper's income level.
What It Covers
Lindsay Owens, author and economic policy researcher, explains how algorithmic pricing tools, surveillance data, and repair lockouts systematically extract more money from consumers. From RealPage coordinating apartment rents to Instacart charging 23% more for identical groceries, the fixed public price tag is disappearing and being replaced by personalized pricing engineered against individual shoppers.
Key Questions Answered
- •Algorithmic Rent Coordination: RealPage, a Texas-based real estate software company, allegedly facilitated rent price-fixing across thousands of landlords by recommending prices derived from pooled competitor data. The software actively discouraged discounting and encouraged leaving units vacant rather than lowering rents. Human "pricing advisers" called landlords to ensure compliance with recommendations, transforming what appeared to be neutral market data into coordinated price elevation.
- •Instacart Surveillance Pricing: A study of 400+ shoppers buying identical 23-item baskets across four cities found price variation on 75% of items, with differences reaching 23% for the same product. Extrapolated across a household's annual grocery spend, a 7% average premium equals roughly $1,200 per year. Instacart attributed differences to routine pricing tests, then quietly acquired the AI company running those experiments after public backlash.
- •Comparison Shopping Requires New Tactics: Standard brand-to-brand price comparison is now insufficient. Consumers should compare the same item logged in versus logged out, on the app versus the website versus in-store, and with versus without loyalty program credentials attached. Loyalty programs can produce a "loyalty penalty" where accumulated behavioral data confirms purchase certainty, eliminating any incentive for the retailer to offer discounts.
- •Right to Repair Is a Pricing Issue: When manufacturers lock repair access through proprietary software, they create a daisy chain of price extraction: overcharge on purchase, overcharge on parts, monopolize labor, then force repurchase. John Deere has stated farmers do not own the software in their tractors. Threatening to void warranties for third-party repairs is illegal under existing law, though companies continue the practice routinely.
- •Dynamic Pricing Shifts from Scarcity to Exploitation: Traditional dynamic pricing managed genuinely scarce resources like airline seats. The current expansion into fast food, casino sundry stores, and grocery apps has no scarcity rationale. Companies now use it to identify and monetize urgency and desperation, such as a parent searching for fever medication or a teenager needing a prom dress same-day, regardless of the shopper's income level.
- •Surveillance Pricing Extends to Wages: The same data profiling used to maximize what consumers pay is applied in reverse to minimize what workers earn. An experiment with seven Uber drivers showed identical rides offered at different pay rates based on inferred driver desperation. Travel nurse shift platforms use reverse auctions where the lowest wage bid wins, creating financial pressure that pushes fatigued workers to accept underpaid shifts.
Notable Moment
When Owens revealed that Delta Airlines discussed personalized pricing as "the holy grail" on an investor call, then later denied any such plans after public backlash, it illustrated a recurring pattern: companies openly strategize about individualized price extraction until exposure forces a public reversal, with no guarantee the underlying systems actually stop.
Episode Transcript
At Lowe's, this Veterans Day and every day, military members, veterans, and their spouses get automatic MyLowe's reward silver status benefits, plus 10% off eligible purchases with no annual limit. It's one way we honor and give back to those who have served and still do. Learn more and verify now at lowes.com/military. 10% discount can't be combined with another offer. Exclusions, terms, and conditions apply. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. Details at lowes.com/termssubjecttochange. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. From spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers, even the occasional tech luminary, cybercrime investigator or terrorist kidnapping survivor. And if you're new to the show or you wanna tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of some of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today on the show, personalized pricing sounds like a deal tailored just for you. Sometimes the tailored part is how thoroughly you get screwed. Today, our guest Lindsay Owens explains how the same groceries can carry different prices for different shoppers, why buying a product may no longer mean you can actually repair it, and how to push back when companies turn your own personal data against your wallet. Here we go with Lindsay Owens. This whole idea is interesting because, know, we've heard that, oh, if you log on to a website using a VPN, right, VPN companies are like, if you use a VPN when you buy a flight, maybe it'll be cheaper. And I was like, oh, is that a thing? Is that real? And your book is like, hey, not only is this maybe real, but a bunch of other stuff that you don't even know about is going on where you're kind of getting custom pricing, which sounds really good, but is actually terrible most of the time. So the book starts in this interesting way. The FBI raids a luxury apartment company in Atlanta because the government thinks landlords used a pricing algorithm essentially to coordinate rent hikes. Now, this sounds kinda like a modern crime thriller. And by the way, I'm shocked the FBI gave two you know whats about any of this, but I'm glad they did. It sounds like a modern crime, but except the victims are just ordinary renters. So start with that morning. Who is Cortland management? What's the government investigating? What's this crime scheme that allegedly happened? Yeah. The FBI conducts a dawn raid in Atlanta, …
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