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The Indie Hackers Podcast

#275 – Love, Cohort-Based Courses, and Monetization Frameworks with Wes Kao of Maven

58 min episode · 2 min read
·
Wes Kao

Episode

58 min

Read time

2 min

Topics

Career Growth, Relationships, Startups

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Course Market Fit Framework: Instructors must teach topics where they have obvious credibility based on their LinkedIn and background, targeting students who were them 2-3 years ago, at price points averaging $800 per student for cohort-based courses.
  • Content Hierarchy of BS: Courses sit at the top of credibility because they require bi-directional interaction with 50-100 professionals who challenge ideas in real-time, unlike one-directional formats like tweets, conference talks, or even books where BS can hide.
  • Marketing Before Building: Course creators should answer distribution, pricing, and value delivery questions before building curriculum. Instructors like Shivani Berry scaled from 15 to 60 students at $2,000 per course by hosting free webinars at company ERG groups.
  • Scaling Through Subgroups: Cohort-based courses can reach 300-1,000 students per session by creating intimate subgroups for discussion while maintaining live instruction. Maven instructors keep 90% of revenue, with top earners approaching $1 million annually teaching just a few cohorts.

What It Covers

Wes Kao, cofounder of Maven, explains how cohort-based courses generate $20,000-$500,000 annually for instructors, achieve 75% completion rates versus 4-6% for traditional MOOCs, and create sustainable education businesses through live interaction.

Key Questions Answered

  • Course Market Fit Framework: Instructors must teach topics where they have obvious credibility based on their LinkedIn and background, targeting students who were them 2-3 years ago, at price points averaging $800 per student for cohort-based courses.
  • Content Hierarchy of BS: Courses sit at the top of credibility because they require bi-directional interaction with 50-100 professionals who challenge ideas in real-time, unlike one-directional formats like tweets, conference talks, or even books where BS can hide.
  • Marketing Before Building: Course creators should answer distribution, pricing, and value delivery questions before building curriculum. Instructors like Shivani Berry scaled from 15 to 60 students at $2,000 per course by hosting free webinars at company ERG groups.
  • Scaling Through Subgroups: Cohort-based courses can reach 300-1,000 students per session by creating intimate subgroups for discussion while maintaining live instruction. Maven instructors keep 90% of revenue, with top earners approaching $1 million annually teaching just a few cohorts.

Notable Moment

Kao reveals that most people are in incompatible relationships modeled after TV drama conflict, when relationships should feel easy. She and her founder husband both run Series A startups without emotional drain from miscommunication or constant explaining.

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Episode Transcript

What's up, dude? What's going on, man? You know what I've been reading about lately is love. Been trying to learn more about the concept of love and the science behind love and sort of psychological perspective on love. Trying to unweave the rainbow as some That's very that's very you. I got I got literally yelled at by one of Natalie's friends this weekend because he thought I was too analytical about stuff. Yeah. Like, it's like, what is love made out of? Yeah. You know, people say that that phrase, like, hey, you're overanalyzing things. Like Right. Don't over like, I don't even think that makes any sense to me. I'm like, what what is Because that's an that's an analysis. Overanalyze something? Does that make any sense? Have you ever heard of the triangular theory of love? No. Let's get into it. So and, you know, popular society Does it have anything to do with the love triangle? It's my first my first phase. What's the love triangle? You know what a love triangle is? A love triangle is a Oh, you mean, like, when it's, like, one person loves another person who loves a totally different person. Yeah. That's like a big concept. Whoever came up with the triangular theory of love had to know that they were, like, taking that name space. It has literally nothing to do with that. But the triangular theory of love is I think it's just an attempt to understand love from, like, a psychological perspective. Like, what actually is going on here? It's, I think, popular among psychologists and, practicing therapists. And the idea is that, like, in normal society, we have this word love that we use to describe a bunch of different things. Right? I could say I love you. You're my brother. I could say I love my girlfriend. I could say I love my kids if I had kids. I could say I love this candy bar. I could say I'm falling in love to somebody just kinda, like, do you think so? Platonic love and romantic love, etcetera. So you start getting into more specifics, but, like, generally, people just say love, and it's very vague. So the triangular theory of love, imagine a triangle. So there's kind of three different incarnations of love. There's intimacy, there's passion, and there is commitment. So intimacy is like this feeling of warmth, wanting to be, like, next to somebody, enjoying their presence, just being really close and open, and the comfort that comes from knowing that you and this other person want the same thing. Mhmm. Then there's passion. Right? That's associated with crazy extreme emotions, highs, lows. Like your first high school romance. It's like limerence or infatuation or obsession or, like, a classic word you just use? Limerence? You never heard of limerence? I've never heard you use a term I didn't know. Like, what? What? Wow. You've been you've been you've been reading. …

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