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The Ezra Klein Show

The Very Good and Very Bad News on Climate

85 min episode · 3 min read
·
Bill Mckibben

Episode

85 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Fundraising & VC, Science & Discovery, History

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Clean Energy Cost Crossover: Solar and wind crossed a decisive threshold earlier this decade, becoming cheaper than burning fossil fuels. The energy think tank Ember found that in 2025, all new global electricity demand was met by renewables, with solar alone accounting for 75% of that growth. Renewables now exceed coal in global power generation for the first time in history.
  • Australia's Free Electricity Model: Australia now generates surplus solar and wind power mid-day, prompting utilities to offer free electricity between noon and 3pm. Residents respond by scheduling appliances, charging EVs, and purchasing home storage batteries — now cheap enough for widespread adoption. California mirrors this, running on 60% less natural gas than three years ago, with battery storage equivalent to 12 nuclear plants added.
  • Bureaucracy Blocks U.S. Solar Adoption: Americans pay 3–5 times more than Europeans or Australians for home solar installation — not because panels cost more, but because 15,000 U.S. jurisdictions each maintain separate zoning codes and inspection requirements. The National Renewable Energy Lab's SolarAPP+ instant permitting tool, now being adopted across multiple states, can eliminate this bottleneck and replicate Europe's faster deployment model.
  • Balcony Solar Legalization: Plug-in solar panels, zip-tied to apartment balcony railings and plugged directly into wall outlets without an electrician, have been adopted by 5 million Europeans and can supply roughly 20% of an apartment's electricity. This was illegal across most U.S. states until 2025. McKibben's Third Act organization secured legalization in 10 states within 14 weeks, opening a new market for renters.
  • AMOC Collapse Risk: Scientists now estimate a 50% probability that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation — a system of ocean currents 100 times the flow of the Amazon River — could begin large-scale collapse within decades, not the next century as previously believed. Freshwater from melting Greenland ice disrupts the salinity-driven density differences that power this system, which regulates heat distribution across the entire planet.

What It Covers

Ezra Klein and climate author Bill McKibben examine the simultaneous acceleration of both renewable energy deployment and climate damage. In 2025, solar alone met 75% of global electricity growth, renewables surpassed coal for the first time, and fossil fuel generation fell in China and India — yet warming, extreme weather, and U.S. political obstruction intensify simultaneously.

Key Questions Answered

  • Clean Energy Cost Crossover: Solar and wind crossed a decisive threshold earlier this decade, becoming cheaper than burning fossil fuels. The energy think tank Ember found that in 2025, all new global electricity demand was met by renewables, with solar alone accounting for 75% of that growth. Renewables now exceed coal in global power generation for the first time in history.
  • Australia's Free Electricity Model: Australia now generates surplus solar and wind power mid-day, prompting utilities to offer free electricity between noon and 3pm. Residents respond by scheduling appliances, charging EVs, and purchasing home storage batteries — now cheap enough for widespread adoption. California mirrors this, running on 60% less natural gas than three years ago, with battery storage equivalent to 12 nuclear plants added.
  • Bureaucracy Blocks U.S. Solar Adoption: Americans pay 3–5 times more than Europeans or Australians for home solar installation — not because panels cost more, but because 15,000 U.S. jurisdictions each maintain separate zoning codes and inspection requirements. The National Renewable Energy Lab's SolarAPP+ instant permitting tool, now being adopted across multiple states, can eliminate this bottleneck and replicate Europe's faster deployment model.
  • Balcony Solar Legalization: Plug-in solar panels, zip-tied to apartment balcony railings and plugged directly into wall outlets without an electrician, have been adopted by 5 million Europeans and can supply roughly 20% of an apartment's electricity. This was illegal across most U.S. states until 2025. McKibben's Third Act organization secured legalization in 10 states within 14 weeks, opening a new market for renters.
  • AMOC Collapse Risk: Scientists now estimate a 50% probability that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation — a system of ocean currents 100 times the flow of the Amazon River — could begin large-scale collapse within decades, not the next century as previously believed. Freshwater from melting Greenland ice disrupts the salinity-driven density differences that power this system, which regulates heat distribution across the entire planet.
  • Agrivoltaics as Land Strategy: Replacing the 30 million acres of U.S. corn currently used for ethanol with solar panels would generate close to 100% of current U.S. energy needs, compared to ethanol's 3%. Dual-use agrivoltaic installations — solar panels interplanted with wildflowers — show 10 times more native pollinators than prior farmland, increasing fruit set on surrounding farms while eliminating nitrogen and phosphorus agricultural runoff.

Notable Moment

McKibben describes visiting a Ghanaian village the day after its first solar microgrid was installed. Village elders proudly handed him cold water bottles — something never before possible without refrigeration. The most anticipated use for the new refrigerator was vaccine storage, but children were also tasting ice cream for the first time.

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Episode Transcript

Hi. It's Michael Sullivan from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times. And today, we're in the kitchen testing canned tomatoes. Tasting for sweetness, acidity, definitely the color, the texture. These tomatoes, they're pretty velvety. Like, they break apart easily with a spoon. The guides that we write are living, breathing things. It's a piece of fruit in a can, so it's gonna change every year. At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come visit us at nytimes.com/wirecutter. Here's the good news. Green energy is getting better and cheaper faster than we had ever dared hope. This next sentence was unimaginable even a few years ago. The energy think tank, Amber, found in April that all, all of the new electricity demand around the world in 2025 was met with green power. That is wild. But here is the bad news. Climate change is accelerating. We're discovering new ways that the climate system is more fragile, more sensitive to emissions than we previously thought. Europe is in the midst of an extraordinary heat wave. The world is stirring down the barrel of a powerful El Nino. And scientists say it could intensify to a super El Nino, causing extreme temperatures and dramatically shifting global weather patterns. We are not talking that much about climate change lately. That doesn't mean it has stopped happening. And climate politics is in almost total disarray. Trump has gutted the inflation production act. His administration is accelerating fossil fuel production, kneecapping green energy. Wind, it doesn't work, I will tell you. Aside from ruining our fields and our valleys and killing all the birds, having very being very weak and very expensive, all made But here's the the possibility. Here's my bit of optimism. The advances in green technology make a new climate politics possible. One that doesn't just talk about sacrifice and disaster prevention, but presents decarbonization and green energy as a way station on the path to somewhere that is better. Clean energy abundance, a new form of energetic wealth, the possibility of the left actually offering a future of more and better, not less and worse. This was a hard case to make even a few years ago, but now we can not just imagine it, we can see it, touch it, live in it. It is here. So how do we talk about it? How do we make it happen? Bill McKibben is a Schuman distinguished scholar of environmental studies at Middlebury College, founder of 350.org, a climate action group, as well as Third Act, which is organizing people 60 on climate change. He is a contributing writer at The New Yorker. He writes the sub sect, the crucial years, and his most recent book is Here Comes the Sun, a Last Chance for the Climate and a Fresh Chance for Civilization. As always, my email is areclineshow@nytimes.com. Bill McKibben, welcome back to the …

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  • by National Renewable Energy Lab

    The National Renewable Energy Lab's SolarAPP+ instant permitting tool, now being adopted across multiple states, can eliminate this bottleneck and replicate Europe's faster deployment model.

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