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The Inventors of Deep Research

61 min episode · 2 min read
·
Arash Selvan,Mukund Sridhar

Episode

61 min

Read time

2 min

Topics

Remote Work, Investing, Fundraising & VC

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Editable Research Plans: Deep Research generates an upfront research plan showing exactly how it will break down the query before starting. Users can edit this plan conversationally or via button, though most hit start immediately. This transparency mechanism helps users understand the approach even when they don't engage, addressing the challenge of spending five minutes on potentially misaligned research directions.
  • Custom Post-Training Required: The team built a specialized fine-tuned version of Gemini 1.5 Pro specifically for deep research, not just the base model. This post-training work teaches iterative planning across domains without overfitting per vertical. The challenge involves balancing new capabilities while preserving pre-training knowledge, using data augmentation techniques to maintain generalizability across their research ontology.
  • Asynchronous Orchestration Platform: Google built a new async engine enabling users to close computers and receive notifications when research completes. The system maintains state, handles retries on failures, and manages hundreds of LLM calls reliably. This differs from previous synchronous chat interactions and resembles workflow systems like Temporal or Apache Airflow but optimized for multi-minute agent jobs.
  • Context Over RAG Strategy: Deep Research keeps all browsed websites in the full context window (up to two million tokens) rather than using retrieval augmented generation. RAG struggles when queries have multiple attributes since cosine similarity doesn't work well. The team only falls back to RAG when context exceeds limits or for conversations beyond 10 turns ago, prioritizing recent research for complex follow-up questions.
  • Ontology-Based Evaluation: Instead of vertical-specific benchmarks, the team developed a research behavior ontology spanning broad-shallow queries (like finding summer camps) to narrow-deep investigations. They combine automated metrics (plan length, iteration steps, time distribution) with human evaluation on comprehensiveness and groundedness. Standard benchmarks don't translate to product experience since text output entropy makes verification challenging.

What It Covers

Arash Selvan and Mukund Sridhar, the PM and tech lead behind Gemini Deep Research, explain how they built the original deep research agent category. They cover the technical architecture, including custom fine-tuned models, asynchronous orchestration systems, iterative planning mechanisms, and evaluation strategies for five-minute autonomous research tasks that browse dozens of websites.

Key Questions Answered

  • Editable Research Plans: Deep Research generates an upfront research plan showing exactly how it will break down the query before starting. Users can edit this plan conversationally or via button, though most hit start immediately. This transparency mechanism helps users understand the approach even when they don't engage, addressing the challenge of spending five minutes on potentially misaligned research directions.
  • Custom Post-Training Required: The team built a specialized fine-tuned version of Gemini 1.5 Pro specifically for deep research, not just the base model. This post-training work teaches iterative planning across domains without overfitting per vertical. The challenge involves balancing new capabilities while preserving pre-training knowledge, using data augmentation techniques to maintain generalizability across their research ontology.
  • Asynchronous Orchestration Platform: Google built a new async engine enabling users to close computers and receive notifications when research completes. The system maintains state, handles retries on failures, and manages hundreds of LLM calls reliably. This differs from previous synchronous chat interactions and resembles workflow systems like Temporal or Apache Airflow but optimized for multi-minute agent jobs.
  • Context Over RAG Strategy: Deep Research keeps all browsed websites in the full context window (up to two million tokens) rather than using retrieval augmented generation. RAG struggles when queries have multiple attributes since cosine similarity doesn't work well. The team only falls back to RAG when context exceeds limits or for conversations beyond 10 turns ago, prioritizing recent research for complex follow-up questions.
  • Ontology-Based Evaluation: Instead of vertical-specific benchmarks, the team developed a research behavior ontology spanning broad-shallow queries (like finding summer camps) to narrow-deep investigations. They combine automated metrics (plan length, iteration steps, time distribution) with human evaluation on comprehensiveness and groundedness. Standard benchmarks don't translate to product experience since text output entropy makes verification challenging.
  • Counterintuitive Latency Preferences: Users actually value longer research times, contrary to all Google product orthodoxy where latency improvements always increased satisfaction and retention. The team initially worried about five-minute waits and built a hard 10-minute limit, but users appreciate visible work being done across 30-70 websites. This inverts traditional product metrics where faster always performed better.

Notable Moment

The team discovered users suspected they were artificially inflating wait times when investor Jason Calacanis asked if they generated answers in 10 seconds then made users wait. This completely contradicted their assumptions since every Google product historically showed latency improvements drove all other metrics up, leading them to initially build both five-minute and 15-minute hardcore versions.

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Episode Transcript

Everybody's going deep now. Deep work, deep learning, deep mind. If 2025 is the year of agents, then the twenty twenties are the decade of deep. While LLM powered search is as old as Perplexity and SearchGPT and open source projects like GPT Researcher and clones like Open Deep Research exist, the difference with commercial Deep Research products is they are both agentic and bundling custom tuned frontier models like OpenAI's o three or, as today's guests discuss, a fine tuned version of Gemini. Since the launch of OpenAI's Deep Research on February 2, the reactions have been nothing short of breathless. Quote, Deep Research is the best public facing AI product Google has ever released. It's like having a college educated researcher in your pocket, end quote, from Jason Calacanis. Quote, I have had Deep Research write a number of 10 page papers for me, each of them outstanding. I think of the quality as comparable to having a good PhD level research assistant and sending that person away with a task for a week or two or maybe more. Except deep research does the work in five or six minutes. End quote from Tyler Cowen. Quote, deep research is one of the best bargains in technology. End quote from Ben Thompson. Quote, my very approximate vibe is that it can do a single digit percentage of all economically valuable tasks in the world, which is a wild milestone. End quote from Sam Altman. Since then, a dozen open and closed source clones have emerged from the woodwork trying to replicate this success from perplexity to x dot ai with their Grok three launch late yesterday. In today's episode, we welcome Arash Selvan and Mukund Sridhar, the lead PM and tech lead for Gemini Deep Research, the originators of the entire category of deep research agents, which have overnight become the newest killer use case for AI. We asked detailed questions from inspiration to implementation, why they had to fine tune a special model for it instead of using the standard Gemini model, how to run evils for them, and how to think about the distribution of use cases. Arash and Mukund will also be joining us as keynote speakers for the agents engineering track at the AI Engineer Summit in New York City on February 21. This is our last in our recent series of upcoming AI Engineer Summit speakers, and we hope you're as excited for their talks and workshops as we are. You can sign up for the online livestream linked in the show notes. See you at the summit. Watch out and take care. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co host, Swyx, founder of Smalley Eye. Hey. And today, we are very honored to have in our studio Arusha Mukun from the Deep Research team, the OG Deep Research team. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thanks …

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Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode

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Tools

  • by Apache Software Foundation

    This differs from previous synchronous chat interactions and resembles workflow systems like Temporal or Apache Airflow but optimized for multi-minute agent jobs.
  • by Google

    Arash Selvan and Mukund Sridhar, the PM and tech lead behind Gemini Deep Research, explain how they built the original deep research agent category.
  • This differs from previous synchronous chat interactions and resembles workflow systems like Temporal or Apache Airflow but optimized for multi-minute agent jobs.
  • by Google

    The team built a specialized fine-tuned version of Gemini 1.5 Pro specifically for deep research, not just the base model.

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