The Agent Network — Dharmesh Shah
Episode
98 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Career Growth, Productivity, Design & UX
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Agent Definition Framework: Shah defines agents as AI-powered software that accomplishes a goal, deliberately keeping it broad. He proposes treating tools as atomic agents, creating a unified primitive where everything becomes an agent that can be composed. This enables thinking about multi-agent systems as networks of single-celled organisms that combine into more complex structures, with MCP serving as the discovery and delegation protocol between them.
- ✓Model Routing Economics: Agent.AI discovered users default to the highest-numbered model like GPT-4.5 regardless of need, driving up costs dramatically. By back-channel testing the same agent across different models and collecting human ratings, they achieved orders of magnitude cost reduction with zero quality loss. Auto-optimization based on actual performance data rather than model names represents a major efficiency opportunity for agent builders.
- ✓Cross-Agent Memory Architecture: The next frontier involves shared memory across agents rather than isolated per-agent memory. When a user teaches one agent their preferences, subsequent agents should access that knowledge with proper opt-in controls. This creates network effects where building on a platform with existing user memory provides immediate value versus starting from scratch as an independent agent.
- ✓Work vs Results Pricing: Customer support succeeds with results-based pricing because tickets have known costs and objective quality measures like CSAT scores. Most use cases lack these two dimensions - consistent economic value and objective outcome measurement. Logo design demonstrates the problem: value varies by orders of magnitude and quality remains subjective, making per-outcome pricing impractical despite the appeal.
- ✓Engineering Value Thesis: The total economic value solvable by software grows faster than the denominator of available engineers, including AI agents. Engineers gain power tools to solve exponentially more problems, increasing their value rather than decreasing it. The focus on denominator growth ignores numerator expansion - the dramatically larger problem space that becomes addressable with AI-augmented engineering capabilities.
What It Covers
Dharmesh Shah, HubSpot CTO and creator of Agent.AI, discusses his minimal agent definition, the shift from work-as-a-service to results-based pricing, and building a professional network for AI agents. He covers MCP adoption, multi-agent systems, memory architecture, model routing optimization, and why 2026 will be the year of agent networks rather than individual agents.
Key Questions Answered
- •Agent Definition Framework: Shah defines agents as AI-powered software that accomplishes a goal, deliberately keeping it broad. He proposes treating tools as atomic agents, creating a unified primitive where everything becomes an agent that can be composed. This enables thinking about multi-agent systems as networks of single-celled organisms that combine into more complex structures, with MCP serving as the discovery and delegation protocol between them.
- •Model Routing Economics: Agent.AI discovered users default to the highest-numbered model like GPT-4.5 regardless of need, driving up costs dramatically. By back-channel testing the same agent across different models and collecting human ratings, they achieved orders of magnitude cost reduction with zero quality loss. Auto-optimization based on actual performance data rather than model names represents a major efficiency opportunity for agent builders.
- •Cross-Agent Memory Architecture: The next frontier involves shared memory across agents rather than isolated per-agent memory. When a user teaches one agent their preferences, subsequent agents should access that knowledge with proper opt-in controls. This creates network effects where building on a platform with existing user memory provides immediate value versus starting from scratch as an independent agent.
- •Work vs Results Pricing: Customer support succeeds with results-based pricing because tickets have known costs and objective quality measures like CSAT scores. Most use cases lack these two dimensions - consistent economic value and objective outcome measurement. Logo design demonstrates the problem: value varies by orders of magnitude and quality remains subjective, making per-outcome pricing impractical despite the appeal.
- •Engineering Value Thesis: The total economic value solvable by software grows faster than the denominator of available engineers, including AI agents. Engineers gain power tools to solve exponentially more problems, increasing their value rather than decreasing it. The focus on denominator growth ignores numerator expansion - the dramatically larger problem space that becomes addressable with AI-augmented engineering capabilities.
- •MCP Adoption Driver: MCP succeeds because it solves agent discovery and delegation at the right abstraction level - simple enough for adoption but powerful enough for utility. OpenAPI exists but lacks the use-case-specific features needed for LLM tool discovery. The universe voted by rapid adoption because MCP adds marginal value without going too far, filling a gap that existing standards couldn't address.
- •Over-Engineering Calculus: Under-engineering beats over-engineering when uncertain because tech debt has known interest rates and payoff paths, while premature abstraction may never get used. With code generation trending toward zero cost for refactoring, the case for under-engineering strengthens further. Pay the interest when you arrive at the need rather than speculating on future requirements that may never materialize.
Notable Moment
Shah reveals he personally funds all model costs for Agent.AI's 1.3 million users, including expensive GPT-4.5 calls, viewing it as research benefiting humanity. He tells himself late at night that inference costs are dropping to justify the expense. This commitment to keeping the platform completely free while supporting all models regardless of cost demonstrates his long-term bet on agent networks.
Episode Transcript
Hello again. This is Charlie, your AI cohost. We're back from our travels and excited to get back in the studio with today's special guest, Dharmesh Shah, the fierce nerd, creator of Agent AI, CTO of HubSpot, and the second deeply AI peeled publicly traded company founder on our show. Special thanks to fellow podcaster Sean Puri for the introduction to our dream guest. You may have heard of Dharmesh from his epic $15,000,000 sale of the chat.com domain to OpenAI. In 2023, Dharmesh launched Chatspot, the smart CRM. In 2024, he announced agent.ai, the completely free agent builder. This year, Dharmesh is turning agent.ai into a marketplace and professional network for AI agents and the people who love them. We recorded this episode right after the AI Engineer Conference in New York where Swyx grouped up every definition of agents and presented them in his agent engineering keynote, which you can now find on the latent space blog. Dharmesh takes a different, more minimal approach to defining agents and sees 2026 as the year of multi agent networks. In other news, we're regrouping with fan favorite guest David Hershey for a Claude Place Pokemon hackathon with Anthropic this Sunday. If you're not in San Francisco, then we're excited to launch the 2025 state of AI engineering survey, which you can find in the show notes. Watch out and take care. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Lead in Space podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO of Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co host, Wix, founder of Small AI. Hello. And today, we are super excited to have Dharmesh Shah to join us. I guess your relevant title here is founder of Agent AI. Yeah. That's true for this. Yeah. Creator of Agent AI and, yeah, cofounder of HubSpot. But yeah. Cofounder of HubSpot, which I followed for many years. I think eighteen years now. Yeah. Gonna be nineteen soon. And you caught you know, people can catch up in your house, so I'm sorry, elsewhere. I I should also thank Sean Puri who's who I've chatted with back and forth, who's been, I guess, getting me in touch with your people. But also, I think, like, just giving us a lot of context because obviously, My First Million joined you guys. Yep. And then and they've been they've been chatting with you guys a lot. So for the business side, we can talk about that, but I kinda wanted to engage your CTO, agent, engineer Sure. Side of things. Yeah. So how did you get agent religion? Let's see. Yeah. So I've been working I'll take a, like, a half step back a decade or so ago. Even though actually, more than that. So even before HubSpot, the company I was contemplating that I had name for was called Ingenesoft. And the idea behind Ingenesoft was a natural language interface to business software. Now I realize this is twenty years ago, so that was a hard …
Get the full transcript (23,260 words) + summary by email — free
One-time email with the complete transcript and AI summary of this episode. No account needed.
One email, no spam. We’ll also show you what SignalCast does.
You just read a 3-minute summary of a 95-minute episode.
Get Latent Space summarized like this every Monday — plus up to 2 more podcasts, free.
Pick Your Podcasts — FreeKeep Reading
More from Latent Space
🔬“We have foundation models for language, not for physics” — Anima Anandkumar, Bren Professor of Computing
Aug 26 · 83 min
a16z Podcast
AI Micro Dramas, Generative Media, and the Future of Creativity
Jul 29
More from Latent Space
Simulation: the new Scaling Law — Joon Sung Park, Simile AI
Aug 21 · 69 min
The School of Greatness
How to Build a Million-Dollar Portfolio Starting From Nothing | Graham Stephan
May 8
Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode
SignalCast may earn commission on purchases via these links.
Tools
- Agent.AIBy guest
by Dharmesh Shah
“Dharmesh Shah, HubSpot CTO and creator of Agent.AI, discusses his minimal agent definition... Agent.AI discovered users default to the highest-numbered model like GPT-4.5 regardless of need... Shah reveals he personally funds all model costs for Agent.AI's 1.3 million users”
“He covers MCP adoption, multi-agent systems, memory architecture... with MCP serving as the discovery and delegation protocol between them... MCP succeeds because it solves agent discovery and delegation at the right abstraction level”
More from Latent Space
We summarize every new episode. Want them in your inbox?
🔬“We have foundation models for language, not for physics” — Anima Anandkumar, Bren Professor of Computing
Simulation: the new Scaling Law — Joon Sung Park, Simile AI
🔬The BioAI Phase Shift - Matthew McPartlon & Neil Patil, Chai Discovery
The Inference Engineering Masterclass — Philip Kiely & Ali Taha, Baseten
Codex from 0 to 10M Users: Building ChatGPT Work — Akshay Nathan, OpenAI
Similar Episodes
Related episodes from other podcasts
a16z Podcast
Jul 29
AI Micro Dramas, Generative Media, and the Future of Creativity
The School of Greatness
May 8
How to Build a Million-Dollar Portfolio Starting From Nothing | Graham Stephan
a16z Podcast
Jan 30
“Anyone Can Code Now” - Netlify CEO Talks AI Agents
Marketing Against the Grain
Nov 18
AI Just Broke Marketing (And What You Need to Do Now)
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Nov 5
Ari Emanuel on the Future of Entertainment: Hollywood, AI, Creator Economy, YouTube vs Netflix
Explore Related Topics
This podcast is featured in Best AI Podcasts (2026) — ranked and reviewed with AI summaries.
You're clearly into Latent Space.
Every Monday, we deliver AI summaries of the latest episodes from Latent Space and 192+ other podcasts. Free for one show.
Start My Monday DigestNo credit card · Unsubscribe anytime