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Eric Jang – Building AlphaGo from scratch

157 min episode · 3 min read
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Eric Jang

Episode

157 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Investing, Startups, Fundraising & VC

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • MCTS Four-Step Loop: Monte Carlo Tree Search operates as a four-step cycle — selection, expansion, evaluation, backup — repeated across hundreds to thousands of simulations per move. Selection uses the PUCT formula (Q-value plus exploration bonus scaled by prior probability divided by visit count). Each simulation grows the tree one node, evaluates it with the value network, then propagates results back to the root. In AlphaGo Lee matches, tens of thousands of simulations ran per move; modern training requires far fewer.
  • Policy Distillation as the Core Training Signal: AlphaGo's self-improvement mechanism works by treating MCTS output as a superior label for the policy network. After search produces a sharper action distribution than the raw network's initial guess, the network is trained to predict that refined distribution directly. This shifts computational burden from search into the network weights over successive training iterations, meaning each generation starts from a stronger baseline before applying additional simulations on top.
  • Value Network Bootstrapping Strategy: Training the value network accurately before investing compute in MCTS is critical — running search on inaccurate value estimates produces worse distributions than the raw policy alone. Jang recommends initializing with expert human game data or open-source bot self-play to establish reliable late-game value estimates first. On small boards like 9x9, even random-agent games generate enough realistic end-states to bootstrap a usable value function before scaling to 19x19.
  • ResNets Outperform Transformers at Low Budget: For small-data Go training regimes, residual convolutional networks outperform transformers because local convolutional inductive bias matches Go's spatially structured patterns. Transformers require more data to learn local invariances from scratch but offer better global board context once data is sufficient. Katago found it useful to pool global features throughout the network to connect value across distant board regions — a hybrid approach that partially bridges the gap between architectures.
  • MCTS vs. Model-Free RL Variance: Naive policy gradient RL applied to Go suffers from extreme gradient variance because the win/loss signal is diluted across 300 moves per game. With two evenly matched agents playing 100 games, only one or two moves may genuinely differentiate the winner, yet all 30,000 moves receive training signal. MCTS bypasses this credit assignment problem entirely by generating a strictly better action label for every single move, not just rewarding winning trajectories after the fact.

What It Covers

Eric Jang, former VP of AI at 1X Technologies and Google DeepMind robotics researcher, rebuilds AlphaGo from scratch on sabbatical, explaining Monte Carlo Tree Search, policy and value networks, self-play training loops, and how a 10-layer neural network amortizes what was considered a computationally intractable search problem across a game tree exceeding the number of atoms in the universe.

Key Questions Answered

  • MCTS Four-Step Loop: Monte Carlo Tree Search operates as a four-step cycle — selection, expansion, evaluation, backup — repeated across hundreds to thousands of simulations per move. Selection uses the PUCT formula (Q-value plus exploration bonus scaled by prior probability divided by visit count). Each simulation grows the tree one node, evaluates it with the value network, then propagates results back to the root. In AlphaGo Lee matches, tens of thousands of simulations ran per move; modern training requires far fewer.
  • Policy Distillation as the Core Training Signal: AlphaGo's self-improvement mechanism works by treating MCTS output as a superior label for the policy network. After search produces a sharper action distribution than the raw network's initial guess, the network is trained to predict that refined distribution directly. This shifts computational burden from search into the network weights over successive training iterations, meaning each generation starts from a stronger baseline before applying additional simulations on top.
  • Value Network Bootstrapping Strategy: Training the value network accurately before investing compute in MCTS is critical — running search on inaccurate value estimates produces worse distributions than the raw policy alone. Jang recommends initializing with expert human game data or open-source bot self-play to establish reliable late-game value estimates first. On small boards like 9x9, even random-agent games generate enough realistic end-states to bootstrap a usable value function before scaling to 19x19.
  • ResNets Outperform Transformers at Low Budget: For small-data Go training regimes, residual convolutional networks outperform transformers because local convolutional inductive bias matches Go's spatially structured patterns. Transformers require more data to learn local invariances from scratch but offer better global board context once data is sufficient. Katago found it useful to pool global features throughout the network to connect value across distant board regions — a hybrid approach that partially bridges the gap between architectures.
  • MCTS vs. Model-Free RL Variance: Naive policy gradient RL applied to Go suffers from extreme gradient variance because the win/loss signal is diluted across 300 moves per game. With two evenly matched agents playing 100 games, only one or two moves may genuinely differentiate the winner, yet all 30,000 moves receive training signal. MCTS bypasses this credit assignment problem entirely by generating a strictly better action label for every single move, not just rewarding winning trajectories after the fact.
  • KataGo's 40x Compute Reduction: David Wu's open-source KataGo project, released around 2020, achieved approximately a 40x reduction in compute required to train a top-tier Go bot compared to earlier systems. Key contributions included multi-board-size training (transferring value representations from 9x9 to 19x19), global feature pooling in the network architecture, and refined self-play data pipelines. LLM-assisted coding now makes replicating and extending this work achievable for a few thousand dollars of rented compute rather than millions.
  • Neural Networks Compressing NP-Hard Search: A 10-layer neural network with roughly 3 million parameters can approximate the output of an exhaustive game-tree search spanning more states than atoms in the universe. This compression works because Go — like protein folding — has macroscopic structure: predicting who wins is far more tractable than predicting exact board states 100 moves ahead. The value function targets a smooth, averaged quantity over chaotic futures rather than precise trajectory prediction, making it learnable despite underlying combinatorial complexity.

Notable Moment

Jang argues that AlphaGo's most underappreciated result is not beating a world champion but demonstrating that a small neural network can compress what appears to be an NP-hard search into a single forward pass. He connects this to AlphaFold and raises the possibility that worst-case computational complexity theory may be incomplete when applied to structured real-world problems.

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Episode Transcript

Today, I'm here with Eric Jang, who was most recently vice president of AI at one x technologies. Before that, senior research scientist at what is now Google DeepMind Robotics. And you've been on a sabbatical for the last few months. One of the things you've been doing is rebuilding and improving and hacking on AlphaGo. And so we're today, what we're gonna do is you're gonna explain building AlphaGo from scratch and what it tells us about the future of AI research and development. But, before we get to that, why is AlphaGo interesting? Why is this why is this the project you decided to do on sabbatical rather than just hang out at the beach? Sure. Yeah. I like making things. And AlphaGo and Go AI is one of those things that really got me into the field, when I saw the kind of early break throughs, on off off ago in 2014, 2015, 2016, and so forth, it was just profound to see, you know, how smart AI systems could become and the the kind of computational complexity class that they could tackle with deep learning. This is a problem that has, you know, long been understood to be kind of intractable for a search, and yet, it was solved through through deep learning. And so so that was quite mysterious to me, and I've always wanted to understand that phenomena a little bit better. My training is often in deep neural nets for robotics, where it's, the the decisions made by the neural networks are a bit more intuitive. But AlphaGo is a sort of problem where the the decisions are actually the result of a very, very deep search. And it's always been very mysterious to me how, like, a 10 layer network can sort of amortize the simulation of something so so, so deep in the in the game tree. Yeah. Interesting. So if you plot out how much compute it took to build various iterations of strong go bots over the years, you can see that in 2020, there was a open source project called Katago, by David Wu from Jane Street, who who basically achieved a 40 x reduction in compute needed to train a really strong GoBot, Tableau Rasa. I'm not certain if it's stronger than alpha Go zero or alpha zero or mu zero, but it's very, very strong. And this is what most Go practitioners today train against when they're when they're playing an AI. And thanks to LLM coding, what took a whole team of research scientists at DeepMind and, you know, millions of dollars of research and compute can now be done for, you know, a few thousand dollars of of rented compute. By the way, if you're listening to this on an audio platform, this is a Blackboard lecture, so I highly recommend switching over to a video platform like YouTube if you can to look at the math and the graphs and the Go board. …

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  • KataGoRecommended

    by David Wu

    David Wu's open-source KataGo project, released around 2020, achieved approximately a 40x reduction in compute required to train a top-tier Go bot

other

  • by David Wu

    David Wu's open-source KataGo project, released around 2020, achieved approximately a 40x reduction in compute required to train a top-tier Go bot compared to earlier systems. Key contributions included multi-board-size training (transferring value representations from 9x9 to 19x19), global feature pooling in the network architecture, and refined self-play data pipelines.
  • by Google DeepMind

    Eric Jang, former VP of AI at 1X Technologies and Google DeepMind robotics researcher, rebuilds AlphaGo from scratch on sabbatical, explaining Monte Carlo Tree Search, policy and value networks, self-play training loops, and how a 10-layer neural network amortizes what was considered a computationally intractable search problem
  • by Google DeepMind

    He connects this to AlphaFold and raises the possibility that worst-case computational complexity theory may be incomplete when applied to structured real-world problems.

company

  • Eric Jang, former VP of AI at 1X Technologies and Google DeepMind robotics researcher
  • Eric Jang, former VP of AI at 1X Technologies and Google DeepMind robotics researcher

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