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Eye on AI

#321 Nick Frosst: Why Cohere Is Betting on Enterprise AI, Not AGI

61 min episode · 3 min read
·
Nick Frosst

Episode

61 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Productivity, Remote Work, Investing

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Enterprise deployment efficiency: Cohere's Command R reasoning model runs on two GPUs compared to 16 GPUs for DeepSeek and more for other competitors, enabling private deployment in customer environments including on-premise servers and virtual private clouds. This capital efficiency allows regulated industries like Royal Bank of Canada to use AI on proprietary data without sending information externally, solving the fundamental problem that most valuable enterprise data cannot legally or strategically leave company infrastructure.
  • Production versus demo gap: MIT research shows 95% of AI applications remain in demo phase and never reach production, but Cohere reports the inverse ratio with vast majority of deployments in production use. This reversal stems from focusing on cost-effective models that provide clear ROI rather than flashy consumer features. Companies abandon pilots when inference costs exceed value delivered, making efficiency the critical factor for enterprise adoption beyond proof-of-concept stages.
  • AGI skepticism framework: Frosst argues transformers represent artificial intelligence similar to how planes achieve artificial flight, fundamentally different from biological intelligence rather than replicating it. Planes cannot hover like hummingbirds or match albatross efficiency, yet carry massive weight and speed. Similarly, LLMs excel at document summarization and tool chaining but cannot understand cultural nuance or work autonomously like humans, making AGI through scaling transformers unlikely despite continued improvements in specific capabilities.
  • Evaluation methodology failure: Standard benchmarks like ARC AGI test pixel-matching reasoning games that no actual job requires, making them poor predictors of enterprise utility. Cohere recommends companies create 10-20 examples of their specific use cases and test models directly on those tasks rather than relying on academic benchmarks. This targeted evaluation approach aligns model selection with actual deployment needs, whether summarizing weekly emails for executive reports or analyzing quarterly earnings across multiple data sources.
  • Model customization without consumer features: Cohere trains foundational models from scratch on open web data, then refines them for enterprise reasoning, multimodal document analysis, and tool use while deliberately excluding image generation capabilities. This focus saves parameters and reduces model size while improving performance on business-critical tasks like parsing technical schematics, cross-referencing multiple data sources, and executing complex tool chains. The approach prioritizes ROI-generating capabilities over consumer engagement features that rarely justify costs in business contexts.

What It Covers

Nick Frosst, Cohere cofounder and former Google Brain researcher under Geoffrey Hinton, explains why Cohere focuses on enterprise AI rather than AGI. He discusses building capital-efficient models requiring only two GPUs versus 16-plus for competitors, achieving 95% production deployment versus industry's 5%, and why transformer architectures remain dominant despite alternatives like capsule networks and neuroevolution approaches.

Key Questions Answered

  • Enterprise deployment efficiency: Cohere's Command R reasoning model runs on two GPUs compared to 16 GPUs for DeepSeek and more for other competitors, enabling private deployment in customer environments including on-premise servers and virtual private clouds. This capital efficiency allows regulated industries like Royal Bank of Canada to use AI on proprietary data without sending information externally, solving the fundamental problem that most valuable enterprise data cannot legally or strategically leave company infrastructure.
  • Production versus demo gap: MIT research shows 95% of AI applications remain in demo phase and never reach production, but Cohere reports the inverse ratio with vast majority of deployments in production use. This reversal stems from focusing on cost-effective models that provide clear ROI rather than flashy consumer features. Companies abandon pilots when inference costs exceed value delivered, making efficiency the critical factor for enterprise adoption beyond proof-of-concept stages.
  • AGI skepticism framework: Frosst argues transformers represent artificial intelligence similar to how planes achieve artificial flight, fundamentally different from biological intelligence rather than replicating it. Planes cannot hover like hummingbirds or match albatross efficiency, yet carry massive weight and speed. Similarly, LLMs excel at document summarization and tool chaining but cannot understand cultural nuance or work autonomously like humans, making AGI through scaling transformers unlikely despite continued improvements in specific capabilities.
  • Evaluation methodology failure: Standard benchmarks like ARC AGI test pixel-matching reasoning games that no actual job requires, making them poor predictors of enterprise utility. Cohere recommends companies create 10-20 examples of their specific use cases and test models directly on those tasks rather than relying on academic benchmarks. This targeted evaluation approach aligns model selection with actual deployment needs, whether summarizing weekly emails for executive reports or analyzing quarterly earnings across multiple data sources.
  • Model customization without consumer features: Cohere trains foundational models from scratch on open web data, then refines them for enterprise reasoning, multimodal document analysis, and tool use while deliberately excluding image generation capabilities. This focus saves parameters and reduces model size while improving performance on business-critical tasks like parsing technical schematics, cross-referencing multiple data sources, and executing complex tool chains. The approach prioritizes ROI-generating capabilities over consumer engagement features that rarely justify costs in business contexts.
  • Agentic workflow architecture: Cohere defines agentic systems as models that receive prompts, call multiple tools like search or code execution, then iteratively call additional tools based on results until finding answers rather than responding immediately. This loop enables complex tasks like analyzing emails, Slack messages, and Salesforce data to identify high-potential customers currently receiving minimal attention. The framework proves particularly valuable for knowledge workers processing information across disparate systems, though Frosst rejects the notion of autonomous agent societies as conflating LLMs with AGI.

Notable Moment

Frosst reveals his technical disagreement with former mentor Geoffrey Hinton centers on whether neural networks constitute a sufficient component for AGI or merely a necessary but insufficient one. While respecting Hinton's focus on long-term governance as the field's inventor, Frosst maintains that Hinton's public warnings about existential AI threats confuse the public about timescales and feasibility rather than productively informing regulators and researchers about actual near-term challenges.

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Episode Transcript

I first got introduced to neural networks when I was at the University of Toronto in undergrad. Famously, OpenAI jumped on the transformers, scaled it up, the GPTs. They're working on my neuroevolution. Yeah. Just came out with this book. Yeah. Are you looking at does Coher explore these new or not necessarily new. It's not new. But these other schools of AI, to see how they might be applied? This episode is brought to you by Tastytrade. On ION AI, we talk a lot about how artificial intelligence is changing how people analyze information, spot patterns, and make more informed decisions. Markets are no different. The edge increasingly comes from having the right tools, the right data, and the ability to understand risk clearly. That's one of the reasons I like what Tastytrade is building. With Tastytrade, you can trade stocks, options, futures, and crypto all in one platform with low commissions, including zero commissions on stocks and crypto so you keep more of what you earn. The platform is packed with advanced charting tools, back testing, strategy selection, and risk analysis tools that help you think in probabilities rather than guesses. They've also introduced an AI powered search feature that can help you discover symbols aligned with your interests, which is a smart way to explore markets more intentionally. For active traders, there are tools like active trader mode, one click trading, and smart order tracking. And if you're still learning, Tastytrade offers dozens of free educational courses plus live support from their trade desk reps during trading hours. If you're serious about trading in a world increasingly shaped by technology, check out Tastytrade. Visit tastytrade.com to start your trading journey today. I'm going to myself. Tastytrade Inc is a registered broker dealer and member of FINRA, NFA, and SIPC. I mean, you have a really interesting background. You were Jeff Hinton's first hire, is that right, at Google Brain when he was over there? In Toronto. Yeah. Oh, in Toronto. Yeah. And he very generously did it as to explain neural networks to me. Gave me you know, I was completely, this is 2017. So that that really woke me up to what's going on. And then, you know, since then, I I I started the podcast, and I've I've talked to a a lot of people. But, you know, the the the big companies, are focused on AGI. You guys are not you're focused on the more practical problems of getting a AI to work in the enterprise. So, yeah. Why don't you introduce yourself, give your background, how you ended up with Jeff at Google Brain, and then how you joined Coher or founded Coher with Aiden. I don't know how many of you were there at the founding. And what Coher has been doing for the last couple of years, and then we'll talk about everything that's in the air these days. Okay? Yeah. Happy to. Yeah. So I'm I'm Nick Frost. I'm a …

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    Cohere's Command R reasoning model runs on two GPUs compared to 16 GPUs for DeepSeek and more for other competitors, enabling private deployment in customer environments.

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