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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

Rewriting the Rules: The SEC & CFTC on Crypto, IPOs & the Future of American Markets

60 min episode · 3 min read
·
Paul Atkins,Michael Seelig

Episode

60 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Personal Finance, Investing, Fundraising & VC

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • IPO Decline — Three Barriers to Fix: Public listings have dropped 50% over 30 years, with returns now flowing primarily to insiders rather than public investors. Atkins identifies three specific inhibitions to address: excessive disclosure requirements divorced from materiality, class-action litigation threats tied to stock dips, and weaponized shareholder proposals at annual meetings. Tackling all three is part of his 2025–2026 regulatory agenda.
  • Quarterly Reporting Reform: The SEC is drafting a proposed rule to revisit earnings cadence. Quarterly reporting only began in 1970 — the SEC started with annual reports in 1934, moved to semi-annual in 1955, and the UK reverted to semi-annual in 2014 while allowing voluntary quarterly filing. Smaller companies may benefit most from reduced frequency, as analyst coverage is already sparse for micro-cap issuers.
  • Accredited Investor Modernization: Atkins commits to reforming the accredited investor definition this year via proposed rulemaking. The current wealth-only threshold — roughly $1M net worth or $200K income — excludes finance professors and domain experts while admitting uninformed heirs. The 1940 statute already includes "knowledge" as a qualifying criterion, opening the door for a competency-based test similar to a Series 7 lite administered by a third party.
  • SEC-CFTC Harmonization via MOU: The two agencies are finalizing a memorandum of understanding to share information, coordinate on cross-jurisdictional products, and eliminate duplicative registration requirements. Crypto protocols and prediction markets that involve both securities and commodities have historically been killed in regulatory crossfire. A substitute compliance regime — one primary regulator per product — is the proposed solution to end the turf battle.
  • Crypto Jurisdiction Framework: Tokenized securities remain under SEC authority regardless of delivery mechanism. Digital tokens used as network inputs — like ETH or SOL — fall under CFTC commodity oversight. Capital raises tied to any token, however, trigger securities law regardless of the token's utility. This two-track framework aims to replace Gensler-era regulation-by-enforcement with clear pre-market guidance for builders.

What It Covers

SEC Chair Paul Atkins and CFTC Chair Brian Seelig join the All-In podcast to outline regulatory reforms targeting IPO revival, crypto jurisdiction clarity, accredited investor modernization, prediction market oversight, SEC-CFTC harmonization, and leverage controls across tokenized and AI-driven markets — with the goal of keeping financial innovation onshore in the United States.

Key Questions Answered

  • IPO Decline — Three Barriers to Fix: Public listings have dropped 50% over 30 years, with returns now flowing primarily to insiders rather than public investors. Atkins identifies three specific inhibitions to address: excessive disclosure requirements divorced from materiality, class-action litigation threats tied to stock dips, and weaponized shareholder proposals at annual meetings. Tackling all three is part of his 2025–2026 regulatory agenda.
  • Quarterly Reporting Reform: The SEC is drafting a proposed rule to revisit earnings cadence. Quarterly reporting only began in 1970 — the SEC started with annual reports in 1934, moved to semi-annual in 1955, and the UK reverted to semi-annual in 2014 while allowing voluntary quarterly filing. Smaller companies may benefit most from reduced frequency, as analyst coverage is already sparse for micro-cap issuers.
  • Accredited Investor Modernization: Atkins commits to reforming the accredited investor definition this year via proposed rulemaking. The current wealth-only threshold — roughly $1M net worth or $200K income — excludes finance professors and domain experts while admitting uninformed heirs. The 1940 statute already includes "knowledge" as a qualifying criterion, opening the door for a competency-based test similar to a Series 7 lite administered by a third party.
  • SEC-CFTC Harmonization via MOU: The two agencies are finalizing a memorandum of understanding to share information, coordinate on cross-jurisdictional products, and eliminate duplicative registration requirements. Crypto protocols and prediction markets that involve both securities and commodities have historically been killed in regulatory crossfire. A substitute compliance regime — one primary regulator per product — is the proposed solution to end the turf battle.
  • Crypto Jurisdiction Framework: Tokenized securities remain under SEC authority regardless of delivery mechanism. Digital tokens used as network inputs — like ETH or SOL — fall under CFTC commodity oversight. Capital raises tied to any token, however, trigger securities law regardless of the token's utility. This two-track framework aims to replace Gensler-era regulation-by-enforcement with clear pre-market guidance for builders.
  • Prediction Market Integrity Standards: CFTC-regulated prediction market exchanges must self-certify each contract is not readily susceptible to manipulation before listing. Exchanges serve as the first-line regulator, with CFTC oversight behind them. Kalshi recently brought two enforcement actions — including one against an employee who insider-traded on a MrBeast YouTube video launch — establishing that commodity market insider trading rules apply with the same force as securities law equivalents.

Notable Moment

Atkins revealed that the one part of FTX that did not collapse was LedgerX — a CFTC-supervised swaps platform with properly segregated customer accounts. No customers lost money through that entity. He used this as a direct argument for why regulated, examined structures outperform offshore alternatives, even within the same failed parent company.

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Episode Transcript

Alright, everybody. Welcome to the All In Interview program. Today, we are delighted to have two of the most important individuals shaping capital markets over the next couple of years. SEC Chair Paul Atkins is with us as well as CFTC chair Michael Seelig. Welcome to the All In Interview Show, gentlemen. Glad to be here. It's great to be here. Yep. Also with me, my bestie, Shamath Palihapitiya, who is known to participate in capital markets. I think there's a great structure here for us to talk. Many opportunities, and then guardrails and things that we should be concerned about in such a dynamic time. Chairman Adkins, this is your third tour of duty since the nineties. Things have changed dramatically. So maybe just to start us off here, and I know Chamath's got a lot of great questions ready to go. I'm just curious, in your time, let's say, the last forty years or so, what has, what have you noted here about capital markets and how they've changed? And what's important for us looking forward? Well, thanks. It's great to be here and see both of you all, today. Well, so I started out as a young lawyer, in New York City doing, corporation finance work, you know, new offerings and that sort of thing in the mid eighties. And, and it's and there, you know, to to be a startup company and to to build your products and do r and d and all that, you had to go public, in order to so Apple and Microsoft, Advanced Micro Devices, all of those companies started off as, as, you know, IPOs. And so Andreessen Horowitz has a really, I think, a really good bar chart where they compare the companies of the early and mid to late '80s to today where I mean, it just basically demonstrates through the ROI that insiders versus the buyers of the public stock enjoyed from those early companies, the insiders, meaning there's not much private equity or venture capital back then. But the insiders, meaning the officers, directors, and whatnot, they had a relatively thin slice of the entire pie. I mean, everyone made out well, obviously. But, public, purchasers in the IPO, you know, made out very well over the years and then had the lion's share of that. You look at today, the current, situation where, you know, we have robust private capital markets and we have fully today half of the number of public companies as we had thirty years ago and it's completely reversed. The return on investment is mainly to the insiders, private equity, venture capital, and the corporate officers and employees versus the public because they're mature companies when they actually go public. So that's a huge change. The private markets are very robust and strong. But, but, anyway but the American capital markets are are very healthy, I think. When you look at that back then, there was a real requirement for everybody …

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