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The Tim Ferriss Show

#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

180 min episode · 2 min read
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My Two-year Secret Project,Elan Lee Of Exploding

Episode

180 min

Read time

2 min

Topics

Productivity, Design & UX, Sales & Revenue

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Retail Distribution Reality: 70% of game sales occur in physical retail stores versus 30% online, requiring games to sell themselves on shelves. Line reviews happen twice yearly where buyers see 20-50 games pitched per meeting, making the pitch and visual presentation critical for securing shelf space in major retailers like Target and Walmart.
  • Playtesting System: Exploding Kittens uses 400 volunteer families called Kiddie Test Pilots who receive prototypes, record gameplay sessions within 24 hours, and answer one question: do you want to play again. Games deploy in batches of five, with feedback incorporated before the next batch ships over six to eight months, avoiding flawed stranger-based market research.
  • Design Constraints Framework: Successful casual games follow the two-minute-to-learn, fifteen-minute-to-play rule. Remove any component that does not need to exist. Avoid rules with exceptions using if-then-except logic. Design instructions assuming the creator is absent, anticipating confusion points and correcting them preemptively in the written rules to achieve 95% comprehension rates.
  • Zero Effect Brainstorming: When prototyping, avoid searching for one specific solution because finding that exact thing has low probability. Instead, stay open to finding anything, then adapt what you discover into your solution. This mindset shift enables productive iteration through what-if experiments, testing each modification immediately without attachment to predetermined outcomes.
  • Underdog Mechanics: Games need mechanisms allowing players who fall behind to catch up, preventing skilled players from dominating. Coyote uses attack cards that last-place players deploy against first-place players, adding handicaps like completing all moves with one hand or tyrannosaur arms. This maintains engagement and prevents the runaway leader problem common in competitive games.

What It Covers

Tim Ferriss and Elan Lee detail the complete two-year development process of creating Coyote, a card game that became a national bestseller in 8,000 retail locations, covering game design principles, prototyping methods, playtesting systems, and retail distribution strategies.

Key Questions Answered

  • Retail Distribution Reality: 70% of game sales occur in physical retail stores versus 30% online, requiring games to sell themselves on shelves. Line reviews happen twice yearly where buyers see 20-50 games pitched per meeting, making the pitch and visual presentation critical for securing shelf space in major retailers like Target and Walmart.
  • Playtesting System: Exploding Kittens uses 400 volunteer families called Kiddie Test Pilots who receive prototypes, record gameplay sessions within 24 hours, and answer one question: do you want to play again. Games deploy in batches of five, with feedback incorporated before the next batch ships over six to eight months, avoiding flawed stranger-based market research.
  • Design Constraints Framework: Successful casual games follow the two-minute-to-learn, fifteen-minute-to-play rule. Remove any component that does not need to exist. Avoid rules with exceptions using if-then-except logic. Design instructions assuming the creator is absent, anticipating confusion points and correcting them preemptively in the written rules to achieve 95% comprehension rates.
  • Zero Effect Brainstorming: When prototyping, avoid searching for one specific solution because finding that exact thing has low probability. Instead, stay open to finding anything, then adapt what you discover into your solution. This mindset shift enables productive iteration through what-if experiments, testing each modification immediately without attachment to predetermined outcomes.
  • Underdog Mechanics: Games need mechanisms allowing players who fall behind to catch up, preventing skilled players from dominating. Coyote uses attack cards that last-place players deploy against first-place players, adding handicaps like completing all moves with one hand or tyrannosaur arms. This maintains engagement and prevents the runaway leader problem common in competitive games.

Notable Moment

During development in Toronto, the team stalled until Ferriss mentioned loving rock-paper-scissors for its psychological gameplay across multiple rounds. This shifted focus from the tools to playing the opponent, unlocking 80% of game design within days after months of minimal progress on other concepts.

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Episode Transcript

Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show. Boy, this is a special one. I'll keep my intro brief as my conversation with Alon Lee, which you're about to hear, covers the whole backstory. This is a very, very, very fun episode for me. One I've been looking forward to publishing for months and actually about two years because my brand new card game, Coyote, created in collaboration with Alon and Exploding Kins, which started with this podcast, is now a national best seller. It's everywhere. Just launched 8,000 locations worldwide, including Walmart, Target, Amazon, and a gazillion others. It's a very fast paced card game, takes minutes to learn, hard to master, had Tip Nolan, Bushnell, and 300,000,000 plus social views of gameplay now online. Everything's gone bananas. And please check it out. Please, please check it out if I've done anything that you've benefited from, coyotegame.com. And there's a lot under the hood that I think you might find of interest. Even if you're not a gamer, you don't think about yourself as playing games. Coyotegame.com, super, super satisfying. The entire team at Exploding Kittens is incredible. They're rock stars. A pleasure to work with. So enjoy my conversation with Alon Lee. We talk about the art of the pitch. We talk about figuring out mass retail. We talk about prototyping. We talk about game development. We talk about the nuts and bolts behind the scenes backstory of creating something like this from nothing. One last thing, stick around to the end for a very fun surprise that involves a mystery Hollywood party that you might be able to join. We'd love you to join. So stick around. Please enjoy right after just a few words from the partners who make this podcast possible. If I were to update the four hour work week, which I get asked to do a lot, I would really only add one thing, and that is a section on AI tools. Because for everything I described with virtual assistants and with so much more, you can do with technology immediately. And that can be automated, delegated. There's so much that you can do. And this is also why I recommend this episode's sponsor, Gamma, for creating incredible professional slide decks better, cheaper, and faster than you ever thought possible. It's pretty head spinning. I polled all of you on social, 10,000,000 plus people, about Gamma, and some of you called it a game changer, mind blowing, and far and away the best product in the category. Those are all your quotes. With gamma, you can just drop in an idea, an outline, a document, a PowerPoint, and gamma will turn it into a stunning, ready to share presentation in seconds. And then if you wanna turn that into a website or whatever else, again, snap of the fingers and it's done. With more than 50,000,000 users, it's already the most popular AI presentation platform …

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Tools

  • by Gamma

    Sponsors: Gamma (https://gamma.app)
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    Sponsors: Shopify (https://shopify.com/tim)
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Products

  • CoyoteRecommendedBy guest

    by Exploding Kittens

    Tim Ferriss and Elan Lee detail the complete two-year development process of creating Coyote, a card game that became a national bestseller in 8,000 retail locations, covering game design principles, prototyping methods, playtesting systems, and retail distribution strategies.

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