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The Rewatchables

‘Zodiac’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

174 min episode · 3 min read

Episode

174 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Productivity, Relationships, Design & UX

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Digital Cinematography Pioneer: Zodiac represents Fincher's transition to digital shooting, creating a visual style that ages better than film-based contemporaries. The 4K transfer improves upon theatrical presentation, with intentional use of different actors for each kill scene visible due to digital clarity. This technical choice allows viewers to question whether multiple killers were involved, supporting the film's ambiguity about the case.
  • Research Methodology: Fincher and screenwriter James Vanderbilt spent 18 months reinterviewing living witnesses, cops, and newspaper staff involved in the original case. They used police reports as baseline truth whenever witness memories conflicted, creating a documentary-level accuracy. The production recreated 1969 San Francisco Chronicle newspapers from Michigan library microfiches, printing them on authentic newspaper stock for background authenticity that actors could physically interact with.
  • Performance Through Repetition: Fincher's 60-take approach on digital broke actors' traditional boundaries. The first day of San Francisco production required 56 takes of Ruffalo and Gyllenhaal, with take 56 appearing in final cut. Ruffalo incorporated historical details like Toschi's ulcer problems, removing tomatoes from sandwiches and taking antacids throughout scenes without explanation. This method extracts performances beyond actors' initial instincts, though Downey compared the process to working in gulags.
  • Structural Innovation: The film operates as two distinct movies separated by a four-year time jump. First half focuses on active investigation and murders; second half examines psychological toll on investigators. This structure mirrors All The President's Men and Spotlight but uniquely denies resolution, forcing viewers to accept unknowability. The interrogation scene with Arthur Leigh Allen occurs 90 minutes in, subverting expectations by continuing another hour without closure.
  • Production Design Obsession: Set designers recreated the San Francisco Chronicle newsroom inside a Los Angeles post office, sourcing period-accurate ashtrays, televisions, and office equipment. Background extras performed actual job-appropriate movements rather than generic crowd behavior. Fincher directed background action with same specificity as lead performances, ensuring spatial logic matched real newsroom workflows. This 10 percent extra effort creates subliminal authenticity that registers subconsciously on repeat viewings.

What It Covers

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey revisit David Fincher's 2007 film Zodiac, examining its meticulous research process, digital cinematography innovations, and status as a slow-burn masterpiece. The discussion covers the film's 18-month investigation period, casting choices, obsessive filmmaking techniques including 60-take scenes, and theories about the actual Zodiac Killer case including Arthur Leigh Allen as prime suspect.

Key Questions Answered

  • Digital Cinematography Pioneer: Zodiac represents Fincher's transition to digital shooting, creating a visual style that ages better than film-based contemporaries. The 4K transfer improves upon theatrical presentation, with intentional use of different actors for each kill scene visible due to digital clarity. This technical choice allows viewers to question whether multiple killers were involved, supporting the film's ambiguity about the case.
  • Research Methodology: Fincher and screenwriter James Vanderbilt spent 18 months reinterviewing living witnesses, cops, and newspaper staff involved in the original case. They used police reports as baseline truth whenever witness memories conflicted, creating a documentary-level accuracy. The production recreated 1969 San Francisco Chronicle newspapers from Michigan library microfiches, printing them on authentic newspaper stock for background authenticity that actors could physically interact with.
  • Performance Through Repetition: Fincher's 60-take approach on digital broke actors' traditional boundaries. The first day of San Francisco production required 56 takes of Ruffalo and Gyllenhaal, with take 56 appearing in final cut. Ruffalo incorporated historical details like Toschi's ulcer problems, removing tomatoes from sandwiches and taking antacids throughout scenes without explanation. This method extracts performances beyond actors' initial instincts, though Downey compared the process to working in gulags.
  • Structural Innovation: The film operates as two distinct movies separated by a four-year time jump. First half focuses on active investigation and murders; second half examines psychological toll on investigators. This structure mirrors All The President's Men and Spotlight but uniquely denies resolution, forcing viewers to accept unknowability. The interrogation scene with Arthur Leigh Allen occurs 90 minutes in, subverting expectations by continuing another hour without closure.
  • Production Design Obsession: Set designers recreated the San Francisco Chronicle newsroom inside a Los Angeles post office, sourcing period-accurate ashtrays, televisions, and office equipment. Background extras performed actual job-appropriate movements rather than generic crowd behavior. Fincher directed background action with same specificity as lead performances, ensuring spatial logic matched real newsroom workflows. This 10 percent extra effort creates subliminal authenticity that registers subconsciously on repeat viewings.
  • Box Office Versus Legacy: The film earned only 85 million dollars worldwide on 70 million dollar budget, barely breaking even and receiving zero Oscar nominations in 2008. Released February 2007 before awards calendar shifted, it competed against There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Michael Clayton. Current streaming availability and 4K release transformed it into frequently rewatched film, with stature growing significantly over 15 years as audiences appreciate methodical pacing.
  • Arthur Leigh Allen Evidence: Circumstantial case includes Zodiac-brand watch, matching boot and glove sizes, proximity to victims, ambidextrous ability, and teaching students cipher decoding. He owned bloody knives, lived in trailer with suspicious materials, served prison time for pedophilia during periods when Zodiac letters stopped, and was identified by survivor Mike Mageau eight years later. Only handwriting analysis prevented arrest, though multiple family members believed he was guilty.

Notable Moment

An amateur cryptography expert with autism named Alex Baber used artificial intelligence programs in December 2024 to analyze the Zodiac's 13-letter cipher, narrowing 71 million possibilities to 14 candidates. He identified Marvin Margolis, who used the alias Marvin Merrill and was previously investigated for the Black Dahlia murder, suggesting one perpetrator committed both unsolved cases across different California regions spanning decades.

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Episode Transcript

This episode is brought to by Amazon MGM Studios' new heist thriller, crime one zero one, starring Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Barry Keoghan, and Halle Berry. Set against the sun bleached grit of Los Angeles. I love it. An elusive rule following jewel. They've carries a string of high stakes heist along the 101 Freeway. Wow. This sounds like it's for me and Chris Ryan until he uncovers the score of a lifetime. As a relentless detective closes in the line between a hunter and hunted blurs. Crime one zero one is only in theaters February 13, filmed for IMAX. Don't miss it on the big screen. Check out crime101.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best b two b marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you wanna reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1,000,000,000 professionals and 130,000,000 decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You could target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest b two b return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 in the first campaign on LinkedIn ads. Get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com/rewatch. Terms and conditions apply. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. This is our first podcast that we are running, not only on Spotify as a video, but on Netflix as well. That's Sean Fantasy. He has the big picture. Yes. That's Chris Ryan who's on the big picture sometimes as well. And on the watch, you're still doing that. Right? I still crank it out. Yeah. And we've been doing the rewatchables. Wait. What's the watch? The watch. It's a TV culture pod. Right? What? It's a land man podcast. Culture pod. Wow. First I'm hearing of this. Yeah. Yeah. We have other pods on the network. Other podcasts. Exciting. We have been circling this one for a long time because we already did it. This podcast goes You've been circling it for a while. On the original. We've been doing this podcast since 2017. It has evolved. We've added all these different categories. This is a movie that's on Netflix, so we're gonna try to do some movies to start out that were on Netflix. And this is one we wanted to redo over and over again. I did with you guys my top 50 most rewatchable movies of the twenty first century, and I had a copy paste accident and somehow cut Zodiac out accidentally, which you reminded me of at the end. I flipped out. Proof of life was in there, but turned out that was a 2,000 movie not eligible. So I moved Zodiac belatedly into that spot, but we were making …

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