#410 — The Whole Catastrophe

Welcome to the Making Sense podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed, and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense podcast, you'll need to subscribe at samharris.org. There you'll also find our scholarship program, where we offer free accounts to anyone who can afford one. We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one. I am here with Douglas Murray. Douglas, it's great to see you again. Very good to see you, Sam. So, this has been interesting. You're, I feel like I'm riding shotgun on a, at least one car crash of late. We're gonna talk about your experience on the Joe Rogan experience. And it was an experience, but we're gonna talk about your book as a I'm not sure I like the opening about a car crash, but yeah. It was. Well, I'll Maybe grand theft also. It'll be justified. Get out of a crash and just get into another car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's I think that is our method. But you have a book, on democracies and death cults, Israel and the future of civilization, which is, I guess is part of a now a quartet of books. The the strange death of Europe, the death of the West, or, The War of the West. The War of the West. The Man's of Grouse. And Man's of Grouse. Yeah. I mean, all of which hit the same grotesque object of, Western capitulation to unreason and, a kind of masochistic flight from, sanity in the face of the provocation of Islamism and Jihadism and and other attendant confusions. I think we will, cover all that. I'm I'm definitely gonna track through the book with you. But I wanna start with the intervention you attempted to perform on our mutual friend, Joe. I I hope we hope he's still a mutual friend. That remains to be seen, I I guess. But, and his, sidekick Dave Smith over on the podcast. Because I I thought what you attempted there was fantastic and much needed. This was a kind of moral intervention, which, I thought was very important to do. I've been attempting my version of it not directly in in dialogue with Joe, but, I certainly would do that as well. I thought what you said was quite brilliant and important, and I think there are probably a few crucial points that were misunderstood. And so we I I'd like to do a little bit of a post mortem on that. But I'm wondering what your experience of it was. How how do you view how how much of the aftermath have you seen? I'm sure no doubt even if you don't read comments, you're still getting …