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The art of influence: The single most important skill that AI can’t replace | Jessica Fain (Webflow, ex-Slack)

93 min episode · 3 min read
·
Jessica Fain

Episode

93 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Productivity, Remote Work, Investing

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Executive Calendar Reality: Executives context-switch constantly — moving from budget meetings to legal issues to people problems — and have not thought about your pitch since the last meeting. Counter this by spending the first 30–60 seconds of any meeting re-establishing context: state why you're there, what was decided last time, today's goals, and ask if anything else needs covering. This simple reset dramatically improves the quality of the conversation that follows.
  • Incentive Alignment as Pitch Strategy: Before pitching any idea, map it explicitly to the executive's measurable goals — their OKRs, board pressures, and company-level outcomes. Ask directly what the board is pushing on, or ask their chief of staff or EA what is most urgent for them right now. Then structure your pitch to show how your proposal accelerates their specific success criteria, not just your team's local metrics or feature delivery targets.
  • Present Three Options, Not One: Bringing a single recommendation to an executive review signals that alternatives were not considered, which erodes confidence. Present three options with the preferred solution in the middle — a classic Goldilocks structure. This demonstrates analytical rigor, preempts the objection that something was missed, and gives the executive a framework for discussion rather than a binary approve-or-reject decision on one path.
  • Curiosity as Disarming Tactic: When an executive says something that contradicts your data or expertise, respond with "That's so interesting — what led you to believe that?" rather than defending your position. This question surfaces the reasoning, board pressure, or recent experience behind their view, enabling co-creation rather than confrontation. It also signals respect for their domain knowledge, which builds the trust needed for future pitches on harder or more novel ideas.
  • Kill Things to Build Trust: One of the fastest ways to establish credibility with senior leaders is to proactively deprioritize or kill initiatives that are not working, rather than defending them. This signals that your incentives are aligned with company outcomes, not personal scope protection. Pair this with pre-defined success criteria — tell the executive upfront how you will know if something is failing and on what date you will return with a go/no-go decision.

What It Covers

Jessica Fain, product leader at Webflow and former Slack chief of staff, breaks down the mechanics of executive influence for product managers. Drawing on direct experience inside Slack's leadership, she explains how executives actually make decisions, why most pitches fail, and how PMs can align their ideas with leadership incentives to build trust and get funded.

Key Questions Answered

  • Executive Calendar Reality: Executives context-switch constantly — moving from budget meetings to legal issues to people problems — and have not thought about your pitch since the last meeting. Counter this by spending the first 30–60 seconds of any meeting re-establishing context: state why you're there, what was decided last time, today's goals, and ask if anything else needs covering. This simple reset dramatically improves the quality of the conversation that follows.
  • Incentive Alignment as Pitch Strategy: Before pitching any idea, map it explicitly to the executive's measurable goals — their OKRs, board pressures, and company-level outcomes. Ask directly what the board is pushing on, or ask their chief of staff or EA what is most urgent for them right now. Then structure your pitch to show how your proposal accelerates their specific success criteria, not just your team's local metrics or feature delivery targets.
  • Present Three Options, Not One: Bringing a single recommendation to an executive review signals that alternatives were not considered, which erodes confidence. Present three options with the preferred solution in the middle — a classic Goldilocks structure. This demonstrates analytical rigor, preempts the objection that something was missed, and gives the executive a framework for discussion rather than a binary approve-or-reject decision on one path.
  • Curiosity as Disarming Tactic: When an executive says something that contradicts your data or expertise, respond with "That's so interesting — what led you to believe that?" rather than defending your position. This question surfaces the reasoning, board pressure, or recent experience behind their view, enabling co-creation rather than confrontation. It also signals respect for their domain knowledge, which builds the trust needed for future pitches on harder or more novel ideas.
  • Kill Things to Build Trust: One of the fastest ways to establish credibility with senior leaders is to proactively deprioritize or kill initiatives that are not working, rather than defending them. This signals that your incentives are aligned with company outcomes, not personal scope protection. Pair this with pre-defined success criteria — tell the executive upfront how you will know if something is failing and on what date you will return with a go/no-go decision.
  • Shrink the Change for Novel Ideas: When pitching net-new or high-risk ideas that lack executive buy-in, reduce the perceived investment to a two-week proof of concept or a single experiment with defined success metrics. The book *Switch* frames this as "shrinking the change." Ask the executive directly what failure would look like for them, then design the experiment to address that specific risk. Momentum from a small win creates the credibility needed to fund the larger version.
  • AI Shifts PM Value to Influence and Strategy: As AI handles data analysis, note-taking, and code generation, the highest-leverage PM skill becomes deciding what to build and aligning others around that decision. Use AI tools practically: train a GPT on past product review transcripts to simulate executive pushback before a meeting, run PRDs through Claude to identify weak data or thin UX reasoning, and use Slackbot to surface what topics a leader has been focused on recently.

Notable Moment

Fain describes how a colleague trained a GPT on publicly available product review transcripts to simulate their CPO's likely objections before pitching. Rather than treating this as a shortcut, the team used it as a rehearsal tool — identifying weak points in their reasoning before the actual meeting. This reframes AI not as a replacement for judgment but as a low-cost practice partner for high-stakes influence moments.

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Episode Transcript

As product managers, one of our best sets of skills is curiosity and empathy and trying to understand our users. But the moment that we're talking to an executive, we forget those skills and those talents. It's your fault if the leaders didn't buy into your ideas. People completely misunderstand how executives make decisions, what is going on in the heads. I describe an executive's calendar as a strobe light going off. You wake up at 8AM, you've already got a huge list of urgent things going on. They have not had the time, the energy, the wherewithal to center your problems. What are their goals? What are they trying to do? How are they measured? Connect the thing you're pitching them with that success. There's ways for us to ask much more interesting questions of our executives. Tell me what the board is pushing you on. Execs wanna be successful too. They wanna be good at their jobs. Sometimes you have the best idea and they just don't buy. One of the biggest things you can do to build trust is kill things, deprioritize things. If you're thinking about how do you be more senior, how do you show up in a way that is in a leadership mindset, you get paid to be a domain expert. Your executive is looking for you to be the deepest person in the room. Bringing your expertise to bear is absolutely crucial. You have to act like a CPO. Today, my guest is Jessica Fain, who's been a product leader at Box and Slack and Brightwheel and now at Webflow. And she has gotten very, very uniquely good at the art and science of influence, and in particular, influencing executives. Influence might be the single highest leverage skill for product leaders outside of AI. We actually get into how AI is changing the skill of influence. I've never heard a podcast conversation get deep into the art and science of influence, how to actually change people's minds, and the mistakes that people make when they're trying to influence leaders. We get very tactical and very specific. There's a bunch of stuff in this conversation that I've never heard before or thought about. I am very excited for you to learn from Jessica. Before we get into it, don't forget to check out lenny'sproductpass.com for an incredible set of deals available exclusively to Lenny's newsletter subscribers. Now, let's get into it after a short word from our wonderful sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Omni. Many product teams today are in the process of debating how to ship AI analytics. The hard part is obvious. Having an LLM gas at SQL in production is a huge mess and just a bad idea. Omni takes a different approach. They have a semantic layer built in so that when you embed their analytics, the AI actually knows your business definitions, not just your raw tables. You can test queries, validate the reasoning, and …

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Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode

SignalCast may earn commission on purchases via these links. As an Amazon Associate, SignalCast earns from qualifying purchases.

Books

  • SwitchRecommended
    The book *Switch* frames this as "shrinking the change." Ask the executive directly what failure would look like for them, then design the experiment to address that specific risk.

Tools

  • GPTRecommended

    by OpenAI

    train a GPT on past product review transcripts to simulate executive pushback before a meeting
  • ClaudeRecommended

    by Anthropic

    run PRDs through Claude to identify weak data or thin UX reasoning, and use Slackbot to surface what topics a leader has been focused on recently.
  • SlackbotRecommended

    by Slack

    use Slackbot to surface what topics a leader has been focused on recently.

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