Why cultivating agency matters more than cultivating skills in the AI era | Max Schoening (Head of Product, Notion)
Episode
87 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Startups, Fundraising & VC, Design & UX
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Agency over skills: The defining trait separating high performers in AI-era product teams is agency—the belief that the world around you is malleable and changeable. Skills are now accessible via AI models, so the bottleneck shifts entirely to who actually acts. Schoening points to Notion PMs who rewrote their own job descriptions by moving from PRDs into Figma, then directly into code prototypes, without being asked.
- ✓The "first 10% is free" framework: AI eliminates the startup cost of any project. What previously required weeks of scoping, writing PRDs, and early design can now be prototyped in hours. Schoening frames this as: the first 10% costs nothing, but the last 10% still represents 90% of the real work. Teams should use this to run parallel explorations—send 10 agents down 10 paths simultaneously before committing.
- ✓Prototype in code to understand the material: Schoening does not care whether designers or PMs ship production code. What matters is that they build in code to understand agent loops, LLM behavior, and the actual medium they are designing for. Static Figma mockups of AI chat interfaces are like "dead fish"—they cannot convey how the system actually feels. Notion built a small, LLM-friendly playground codebase specifically to onboard non-engineers into this practice.
- ✓Taste is a trainable prediction model: Taste means running a mental simulation to predict whether a specific audience will respond positively to an idea. It is built through high-frequency reps with feedback loops—identical to how machine learning models train via backpropagation. Schoening notes that designers with strong taste consistently maintain side projects where they own the full product, and they continuously expose themselves to other products to calibrate their internal benchmark.
- ✓Every great product has one tiny superpower: Successful products are not defined by feature breadth but by one exceptionally strong core mechanic. Examples: GitHub's pull request, Heroku's single-line deploy command, Dropbox's menu bar sync icon, Notion's block-and-slash-command system. The most common product failure pattern is the belief that adding one more feature will finally make the product work. It never does—the core must be right first.
What It Covers
Max Schoening, Head of Product at Notion, explains why agency—not technical skill—determines who thrives as AI reshapes product building. He covers malleable software, how Notion's designers and PMs now prototype in code, why great products have one tiny superpower, and how the first 10% of any project is now essentially free.
Key Questions Answered
- •Agency over skills: The defining trait separating high performers in AI-era product teams is agency—the belief that the world around you is malleable and changeable. Skills are now accessible via AI models, so the bottleneck shifts entirely to who actually acts. Schoening points to Notion PMs who rewrote their own job descriptions by moving from PRDs into Figma, then directly into code prototypes, without being asked.
- •The "first 10% is free" framework: AI eliminates the startup cost of any project. What previously required weeks of scoping, writing PRDs, and early design can now be prototyped in hours. Schoening frames this as: the first 10% costs nothing, but the last 10% still represents 90% of the real work. Teams should use this to run parallel explorations—send 10 agents down 10 paths simultaneously before committing.
- •Prototype in code to understand the material: Schoening does not care whether designers or PMs ship production code. What matters is that they build in code to understand agent loops, LLM behavior, and the actual medium they are designing for. Static Figma mockups of AI chat interfaces are like "dead fish"—they cannot convey how the system actually feels. Notion built a small, LLM-friendly playground codebase specifically to onboard non-engineers into this practice.
- •Taste is a trainable prediction model: Taste means running a mental simulation to predict whether a specific audience will respond positively to an idea. It is built through high-frequency reps with feedback loops—identical to how machine learning models train via backpropagation. Schoening notes that designers with strong taste consistently maintain side projects where they own the full product, and they continuously expose themselves to other products to calibrate their internal benchmark.
- •Every great product has one tiny superpower: Successful products are not defined by feature breadth but by one exceptionally strong core mechanic. Examples: GitHub's pull request, Heroku's single-line deploy command, Dropbox's menu bar sync icon, Notion's block-and-slash-command system. The most common product failure pattern is the belief that adding one more feature will finally make the product work. It never does—the core must be right first.
- •SaaS is not dying—it is generalizing: The "SaaS apocalypse" narrative is overstated. The "as a service" component—ongoing maintenance, security, specialist expertise, and scale engineering—remains valuable and difficult to self-build. Schoening predicts software will shift back toward general-purpose tools resembling 1990s categories like word processors and spreadsheets, but these will still be cloud-hosted. Most people do not want to maintain their own software stack, just as most people do not want to hunt their own food.
Notable Moment
Schoening reveals he built a direct Notion competitor in 2014, spending months perfecting the editing experience with features like markdown folding. The week they were set to receive a term sheet from True Ventures, Notion pivoted into the same space, creating a conflict. Notion's early editor was technically inferior—but its block-based core mechanic won anyway.
Episode Transcript
Before, it was very easy to always say, well, I will never be able to do this because insert skill issue. We're realizing that even if you have the skills at your fingertips, the thing that matters is agency. I don't think agency is very evenly distributed in the world. Do you have a piece of advice for someone that wants to develop this within themselves? I tell this to myself. If you drive Notion like it's stolen, one day you wake up and you realize the world is made up by people no smarter than you. It just really awakens you to the idea that you can just change things. You think about your job a couple years ago, what's most changed? The first 10% of every project are now free. It takes almost no effort to now build the first version of a startup. Taste comes up a lot now. Taste actually means you're able to run a virtual machine in your head where, given an idea actually means you're able to run a virtual machine in your head where given an idea, you can predict for a certain in group whether they're going to like it or not. You just have to do reps. It's almost like training a model. What do you think matters to building a successful product? All the great products have something tiny that is a superpower. One tiny core that is so exceptionally good. One of the biggest pitfalls is if you get into the loop of if I just add one more thing to the product, it'll be finally great. That never works. Give this hot take on universal basic income. We already have universal basic income. It's called knowledge work. Today, my guest is Max Schoening. Max is a hard person to describe. He was a product manager at Google. He ran the design team at Heroku. He was a design leader and an engineer at GitHub under Nat Friedman. He's also a two time founder, and is now head of product at Notion. He is one of the most successful AI successful AI forward product leaders out there, and as you'll soon see, one of the deepest thinkers on how AI impacts how we build and how we use software. Before we get into it, don't forget to check out Lenny's product cast dot com for an insane set of deals available exclusively to Lenny's newsletter subscribers. With that, I bring you Max Schonin. Max, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I am so excited to have you here. I feel like there's this quote I think about when I think about you, and you being on this podcast. It comes from the bible. And just paraphrasing, the quote is, I was made for such a time as this. I feel like there's this all this talk about roles merging, designers becoming DMs, engineers, everyone's the same, the Venn diagram's collapsing. You've been that for a …
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“Notion PMs who rewrote their own job descriptions by moving from PRDs into Figma, then directly into code prototypes, without being asked.”
company
“Examples: GitHub's pull request, Heroku's single-line deploy command, Dropbox's menu bar sync icon, Notion's block-and-slash-command system.”
“Examples: GitHub's pull request, Heroku's single-line deploy command, Dropbox's menu bar sync icon, Notion's block-and-slash-command system.”
- NotionBy guest
“Max Schoening, Head of Product at Notion, explains why agency—not technical skill—determines who thrives as AI reshapes product building.”
“The week they were set to receive a term sheet from True Ventures, Notion pivoted into the same space, creating a conflict.”
“Examples: GitHub's pull request, Heroku's single-line deploy command, Dropbox's menu bar sync icon, Notion's block-and-slash-command system.”
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