Skip to main content
Dare to Lead with Brené Brown

Brené with Ruchika Tulshyan on Inclusion on Purpose

75 min episode · 2 min read
·
Ruchika Tulshyan

Episode

75 min

Read time

2 min

Topics

Career Growth, Productivity, Software Development

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • BRIDGE Framework for Inclusion: Be uncomfortable, Reflect on what you don't know, Invite feedback, Defensiveness doesn't help, Grow from mistakes, Expect change takes time. This acronym provides leaders with specific steps to develop an inclusion mindset and navigate discomfort when working across differences.
  • Disaggregate Pay Data by Race and Gender: Organizations often celebrate equal pay between men and women overall, but when data is broken down by race and gender combined, women of color earn significantly less. Asian women make 85 cents, Black women 61 cents, and Latinx women 54 cents per white male dollar.
  • Interrupt Interrupters in Meetings: Anyone can politely stop people who interrupt women of color by saying specific phrases like "I don't think she's finished" or "I'd really like to hear her point of view first." This simple practice becomes organizational norm after initial awkwardness.
  • Use Privilege to Amplify Without Centering Yourself: The Marilyn Monroe-Ella Fitzgerald model shows effective allyship: Monroe used her platform to get Fitzgerald booked at Mocambo club by promising to sit front row, but didn't share the stage. Recommend others for opportunities, then step back completely.
  • 91% of White Americans' Social Networks Are White: Three-quarters of white Americans have no friends of color, and most people first meaningfully interact with someone different in the workplace. This data explains why many lack tools for inclusive behavior and why intentional skill-building is necessary.

What It Covers

Brené Brown interviews Ruchika Tulshyan about her book Inclusion on Purpose, exploring actionable strategies for creating workplace belonging through both individual behavioral change and organizational systems, with focus on women of color.

Key Questions Answered

  • BRIDGE Framework for Inclusion: Be uncomfortable, Reflect on what you don't know, Invite feedback, Defensiveness doesn't help, Grow from mistakes, Expect change takes time. This acronym provides leaders with specific steps to develop an inclusion mindset and navigate discomfort when working across differences.
  • Disaggregate Pay Data by Race and Gender: Organizations often celebrate equal pay between men and women overall, but when data is broken down by race and gender combined, women of color earn significantly less. Asian women make 85 cents, Black women 61 cents, and Latinx women 54 cents per white male dollar.
  • Interrupt Interrupters in Meetings: Anyone can politely stop people who interrupt women of color by saying specific phrases like "I don't think she's finished" or "I'd really like to hear her point of view first." This simple practice becomes organizational norm after initial awkwardness.
  • Use Privilege to Amplify Without Centering Yourself: The Marilyn Monroe-Ella Fitzgerald model shows effective allyship: Monroe used her platform to get Fitzgerald booked at Mocambo club by promising to sit front row, but didn't share the stage. Recommend others for opportunities, then step back completely.
  • 91% of White Americans' Social Networks Are White: Three-quarters of white Americans have no friends of color, and most people first meaningfully interact with someone different in the workplace. This data explains why many lack tools for inclusive behavior and why intentional skill-building is necessary.

Notable Moment

Tulshyan received 30 publisher rejections for her book, with feedback claiming the content wasn't new enough, was too practical rather than inspirational, and that publishers had already signed another woman of color author, revealing systemic barriers even in diversity-focused publishing.

Know someone who'd find this useful?

Episode Transcript

Hi, everyone. I'm Brene Brown, and this is Dare to Lead. Oh, man. I have such a beautiful conversation for you today. I am talking to the very singular, Rachika Tulshyan. She is an award winning inclusion strategist and speaker. She's the founder of Candor, which is an inclusion strategy practice. And we're talking about her new book, which, oh my god, I love, Inclusion on Purpose, an intersectional approach to creating a culture of belonging at work. You know why I love it? It's so actionable. It's so tactical. It's practical. And so often, we talk about organizational behavior change or we talk about individual behavior change. But Rachika does something that is so powerful. She talks about both. She talks about what can I do, and then what systems can we build within the organization, and how we will never have systems that can change our culture in terms of belonging and representation and inclusion and equity if we don't have people who've got power and privilege within organizations making individual transformations? And I love this conversation. She's just one of my favorite people to talk to. So I'm glad you're here. It's an important conversation, and I'm just I'm grateful for it. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. Alright. Before we jump into the conversation, let me tell you more about Rachika. She, again, is the author of Inclusion on Purpose, an intersectional approach to creating a culture of belonging at work. This is from MIT Press. She is the founder of Candor, which is an inclusion strategy practice. A former international business journalist, she is now a regular contributor to The New York York Times and Harvard Business Review. She writes often on workplace equity and inclusion. Ruchika, you may remember, she has been on Dare to Lead because she co wrote a just incredible paradigm shifting article called Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome for HBR with Jodi Ann Burry. The article was among the top read articles in HBR history. …

Get the full transcript (12,199 words) + summary by email — free

One-time email with the complete transcript and AI summary of this episode. No account needed.

One email, no spam. We’ll also show you what SignalCast does.

Browse all Dare to Lead with Brené Brown transcripts →

You just read a 3-minute summary of a 72-minute episode.

Get Dare to Lead with Brené Brown summarized like this every Monday — plus up to 2 more podcasts, free.

Pick Your Podcasts — Free

Keep Reading

Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode

SignalCast may earn commission on purchases via these links. As an Amazon Associate, SignalCast earns from qualifying purchases.

Books

  • Inclusion on PurposeRecommendedBy guest

    by Ruchika Tulshyan

    Brené Brown interviews Ruchika Tulshyan about her book Inclusion on Purpose, exploring actionable strategies for creating workplace belonging through both individual behavioral change and organizational systems, with focus on women of color.

More from Dare to Lead with Brené Brown

We summarize every new episode. Want them in your inbox?

Similar Episodes

Related episodes from other podcasts

Explore Related Topics

This podcast is featured in Best Mindset Podcasts (2026) — ranked and reviewed with AI summaries.

Read this week's Software Engineering Podcast Insights — cross-podcast analysis updated weekly.

You're clearly into Dare to Lead with Brené Brown.

Every Monday, we deliver AI summaries of the latest episodes from Dare to Lead with Brené Brown and 192+ other podcasts. Free for one show.

Start My Monday Digest

No credit card · Unsubscribe anytime