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Conversations with Coleman

Yuval Levin on What Conservatism Is for Today

62 min episode · 3 min read
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Episode

62 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Career Growth, Relationships, Leadership

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Conservative vs. Progressive Psychology: Conservatives begin by perceiving the good as exceptional and work through existing institutions to address problems, while progressives begin by perceiving the bad as avoidable and seek liberation from oppressive structures. This foundational difference in starting orientation — not just policy preference — explains persistent disagreement on institutional reform, family policy, education, and the role of government in shaping individual behavior.
  • Left-Right vs. Up-Down Political Axes: American politics operates on two simultaneous divides: left-right ideological orientation and an up-down populist-elitist axis. Levin argues the parties have switched positions on the up-down axis over the past 30 years — Republicans, once the institutional elite party, now lead populist anti-establishment politics, while Democrats shifted toward elite coalition governance. Recognizing which axis dominates a given political moment clarifies otherwise confusing partisan behavior.
  • University Reform Requires Legislation, Not Executive Pressure: Trump's administrative pressure on universities creates space for reform-minded administrators at institutions like Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, and Wash U to act, but produces no durable change at highly politicized elite schools like Columbia. Only reauthorization of the Higher Education Act — enforcing civil rights law in hiring and admissions — can generate sustained structural reform that survives beyond a single administration.
  • Moral Formation Through Institutional Roles: Lasting character development happens not primarily through childhood instruction but through adult role-taking within institutions. A parent refrains from road rage with children present; a teacher develops responsibility by occupying the teacher role. Aristotle's habituation principle applies: repeatedly acting as a better person gradually produces actual virtue, making institutional participation the mechanism for ongoing adult moral formation throughout life.
  • Durable Policy Requires Coalition-Building, Not Executive Action: Any policy enacted unilaterally by presidential executive order can be reversed within the first two years of the next administration, creating perpetual policy churn. The constitutional design forces coalition-building through congressional negotiation precisely because broad legislative coalitions produce durable outcomes. Levin frames this not as procedural formalism but as the only practical path to changes that outlast a single four-year term.

What It Covers

Political theorist Yuval Levin joins Coleman Hughes to define conservatism versus right-wing populism, analyze Trump's university reform approach, explain the left-right and up-down axes of American politics, address religion's decline, and argue that the U.S. Constitution's core function is forcing a divided society to negotiate durable solutions rather than pursue short-term unilateral victories.

Key Questions Answered

  • Conservative vs. Progressive Psychology: Conservatives begin by perceiving the good as exceptional and work through existing institutions to address problems, while progressives begin by perceiving the bad as avoidable and seek liberation from oppressive structures. This foundational difference in starting orientation — not just policy preference — explains persistent disagreement on institutional reform, family policy, education, and the role of government in shaping individual behavior.
  • Left-Right vs. Up-Down Political Axes: American politics operates on two simultaneous divides: left-right ideological orientation and an up-down populist-elitist axis. Levin argues the parties have switched positions on the up-down axis over the past 30 years — Republicans, once the institutional elite party, now lead populist anti-establishment politics, while Democrats shifted toward elite coalition governance. Recognizing which axis dominates a given political moment clarifies otherwise confusing partisan behavior.
  • University Reform Requires Legislation, Not Executive Pressure: Trump's administrative pressure on universities creates space for reform-minded administrators at institutions like Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, and Wash U to act, but produces no durable change at highly politicized elite schools like Columbia. Only reauthorization of the Higher Education Act — enforcing civil rights law in hiring and admissions — can generate sustained structural reform that survives beyond a single administration.
  • Moral Formation Through Institutional Roles: Lasting character development happens not primarily through childhood instruction but through adult role-taking within institutions. A parent refrains from road rage with children present; a teacher develops responsibility by occupying the teacher role. Aristotle's habituation principle applies: repeatedly acting as a better person gradually produces actual virtue, making institutional participation the mechanism for ongoing adult moral formation throughout life.
  • Durable Policy Requires Coalition-Building, Not Executive Action: Any policy enacted unilaterally by presidential executive order can be reversed within the first two years of the next administration, creating perpetual policy churn. The constitutional design forces coalition-building through congressional negotiation precisely because broad legislative coalitions produce durable outcomes. Levin frames this not as procedural formalism but as the only practical path to changes that outlast a single four-year term.
  • Originalism as Judicial Constraint, Not Universal Framework: Originalism — asking what constitutional text meant and intended — is the correct approach specifically for judges because any alternative substitutes judicial will for democratic lawmaking. However, Levin distinguishes this from how legislators or presidents should engage the Constitution. Members of Congress retain authority to interpret constitutional purpose expansively when making law; judges do not. Conflating these roles produces both judicial overreach and legislative abdication.

Notable Moment

Levin describes watching Michael Moore's 2004 film Fahrenheit 9/11 and realizing that nearly every argument in it — distrust of elites, suspicion of global institutions, anti-establishment populism — would today read as a right-wing film. Only the specific target, George W. Bush, marked it as left-wing, illustrating how completely the two parties have swapped positions on the populist-elitist axis.

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Episode Transcript

Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, grandpa. Wait. You did? Yep. On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say? Yeah. They're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on Car Vonna. Pickup fees may apply. Welcome to another episode of Conversations with Coleman. My guest today is Yuval Levin. Yuval is a political theorist, author, and public intellectual known for his work on constitutionalism, civil society, and the structure of American political institutions. He's the editor of National Affairs, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and the author of many influential books, including The Fractured Republic and A Time to Build. In this episode, we talk about the differences between liberals and conservatives, both philosophically and psychologically. We talk about the Trump administration's heavy handed approach to higher education reform. We talk about the difference between conservatism and right wing populism. We talk about the decline of religion in American life and much more. So without further ado, Yuval Levin. Okay, Yuval Levin. Thanks so much for coming on my show. Thank you very much for having me. So, I wanna give my readers a sense of who you are, what your background is before we get into some of the questions that I I wanna ask you. So how did you start being interested in politics and coming to study the constitution, the importance of institutions, liberalism, all the various political philosophy topics you studied? Yeah. It's a big question, and I, I I'd say I don't have an immediately obvious answer to it. I started being interested in politics very young. I was interested in politics by the time I was a high school student, but I thought that I was interested in, practical electoral politics. So I went to college in Washington and worked on Capitol Hill as a student. And in the course of that, really came to the view that I was more interested in the ideas that underlie politics and something like the intersection of political theory and public policy. I ended up taking more and more of an interest in that. Ultimately, went to graduate school to University of Chicago, and I came back to Washington to work in the Bush administration, but very much with an interest in that intersection. And in a way, since leaving government, a long time ago now back in 2008, I've been in the think tank world working on that intersection. Some of my work is really on public policy, on health care and federal budget issues and things like that, but much of it is on the institutions that are the infrastructure and framework of American political life, and I'm interested in them from the point …

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  • by Michael Moore

    Levin describes watching Michael Moore's 2004 film Fahrenheit 9/11 and realizing that nearly every argument in it — distrust of elites, suspicion of global institutions, anti-establishment populism — would today read as a right-wing film.

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