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Capital Allocators

Nick Rohatyn – Emerging Markets Multi-Asset Investing at TRG (EP.482)

82 min episode · 3 min read
·
Nick Rohatyn

Episode

82 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Relationships, Investing, Fundraising & VC

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Emerging Market Benchmark Problems: MSCI emerging market equity index concentrates 72% in four countries (Korea, China, India, Brazil), creating false diversification. Local currency debt benchmarks mix uneven durations across countries and embed dollar-euro volatility for two-thirds of bonds outside the dollar zone. Corporate bond markets consist of many small, illiquid issues with wide bid-offer spreads, making traditional indexing ineffective compared to developed markets.
  • Multi-Asset Class Advantage: Treating each of the top 20-25 emerging market countries as a three-body problem (equities, local currency debt, hard currency fixed income) and selecting the best-performing asset class per country yields superior returns. Being right just 60% of the time across countries would have produced losses in only one year during the fifteen-year emerging market bear market, due to extreme return dispersion within asset classes.
  • Currency as Risk Management Tool: Currency liquidity almost never disappears in emerging markets, making FX forwards, options, and swaps the most reliable risk management instrument. During the Brazil crisis, hedging loan exposure through currency instruments saved significant capital because you could trade one billion dollars of emerging market FX when equity and loan portfolios became illiquid. This capability requires integration between private equity and currency teams.
  • GP Acquisition Strategy: Post-2008 crisis, 95% of hedge fund allocations went to managers with over $5 billion in assets when only 1% of funds reached that threshold. Acquiring existing GPs provides immediate scale, diligenced track records, established LP relationships, and breakeven or profitable operations. Distinguish between arranged marriages (bank divestitures requiring clear oversight structure) versus love matches (independent teams requiring cultural alignment and shared vision).
  • Private Market Structure Failure: Developed market constructs imposed on emerging markets create mono-asset class funds (private equity OR credit OR infrastructure) in regional or sub-regional strategies. Deal flow cannot support this fragmentation. Combined with fifteen years of currency depreciation, this produces failing GPs and undersized funds competing unsuccessfully against US leveraged buyout firms, shrinking the industry despite private equity outperforming public equities in emerging markets.

What It Covers

Nick Rohatyn, CEO of the Rohatyn Group managing $7 billion in emerging markets, explains why traditional mono-asset class investing fails in emerging markets and advocates for horizontal multi-asset strategies. He covers benchmark flaws, currency management techniques, GP acquisitions as growth strategy, and why the current moment represents an inflection point for emerging market capital flows.

Key Questions Answered

  • Emerging Market Benchmark Problems: MSCI emerging market equity index concentrates 72% in four countries (Korea, China, India, Brazil), creating false diversification. Local currency debt benchmarks mix uneven durations across countries and embed dollar-euro volatility for two-thirds of bonds outside the dollar zone. Corporate bond markets consist of many small, illiquid issues with wide bid-offer spreads, making traditional indexing ineffective compared to developed markets.
  • Multi-Asset Class Advantage: Treating each of the top 20-25 emerging market countries as a three-body problem (equities, local currency debt, hard currency fixed income) and selecting the best-performing asset class per country yields superior returns. Being right just 60% of the time across countries would have produced losses in only one year during the fifteen-year emerging market bear market, due to extreme return dispersion within asset classes.
  • Currency as Risk Management Tool: Currency liquidity almost never disappears in emerging markets, making FX forwards, options, and swaps the most reliable risk management instrument. During the Brazil crisis, hedging loan exposure through currency instruments saved significant capital because you could trade one billion dollars of emerging market FX when equity and loan portfolios became illiquid. This capability requires integration between private equity and currency teams.
  • GP Acquisition Strategy: Post-2008 crisis, 95% of hedge fund allocations went to managers with over $5 billion in assets when only 1% of funds reached that threshold. Acquiring existing GPs provides immediate scale, diligenced track records, established LP relationships, and breakeven or profitable operations. Distinguish between arranged marriages (bank divestitures requiring clear oversight structure) versus love matches (independent teams requiring cultural alignment and shared vision).
  • Private Market Structure Failure: Developed market constructs imposed on emerging markets create mono-asset class funds (private equity OR credit OR infrastructure) in regional or sub-regional strategies. Deal flow cannot support this fragmentation. Combined with fifteen years of currency depreciation, this produces failing GPs and undersized funds competing unsuccessfully against US leveraged buyout firms, shrinking the industry despite private equity outperforming public equities in emerging markets.
  • Scenario Analysis Over Statistics: Standard deviation models fail in emerging markets where six-sigma events occur regularly. Use historical crisis scenarios (1998 Russian default, 2008 financial crisis) to stress test portfolios rather than relying on value-at-risk calculations. When explaining a commodity crash to the JPMorgan board, claiming it was a six-sigma event prompted immediate pushback about expecting similar events within ten thousand days—another crisis occurred one year later.

Notable Moment

Rohatyn describes the moment in 1988 when he realized combining doing good with doing well: seeing JPMorgan's first voluntary loan-for-debt exchange in Mexico (Morgan Mexico bonds), where bank loans converted to bonds with US Treasury guarantees. This transaction solved a deep problem involving many dollars, meaning the problem-solver gets paid well while helping countries—the career insight that shaped his next thirty-seven years.

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Episode Transcript

This issue of single asset class stuff, it really prevails. Let's take a look at it through a private market lens as a way of example. The world has imposed a developed market private investing construct on emerging markets, which is to say the vast majority of investment vehicles in emerging markets are mono asset class. It's either private equity or it's private credit or it's infrastructure. Many of them are regional or subregional. And that is a terrible way to invest in emerging markets. It is a terrible way because the deal flow in emerging markets will not support mono asset class, single country, subregional funds, and therefore, the people who raise that money end up deploying it badly. Layer into that a fifteen year bear market on currencies, you end up with a fragmented market full of failing GPs and two small funds competing with The US leveraged private equity industry. So forget it. I'm Ted Sides, and this is Capital Allocators. My guest on today's show is Nick Roatan, CEO of the Roatan Group, a global emerging markets and real assets investment firm he founded in 2002 that manages $7,000,000,000 across public and private markets. Nick previously spent two decades leading JPMorgan's emerging markets business across multiple cycles and served on the bank's executive committee. He also served as the founding chair of the Emerging Market Traders Association and later as chair of the Emerging Markets Private Equity Association. Nick's worldview is also shaped by his international family history of doing well while doing good. His grandfather, Clarence Street, was a long time New York Times foreign correspondent, and his father, Felix Rowettin, was one of the most influential financiers of his generation. Our conversation traces Nick's path from his international upbringing to capital markets innovation at JPMorgan and the founding of TRG. We discuss his multi asset class horizontal investment approach to emerging markets, problems of emerging market benchmarks, necessity of divers firm. Before we get going, have you noticed that airline travel takes a lot longer these days? Security lines go on as far as the eye can see, and that's even with pre check, clear, or the pre check clear combo. And flights seem to get delayed regularly for no apparent reason. Well, the next time you have even an inkling of a delay and long before you have to board, de board, board again, and sit on the tarmac for an hour alligators? By the time your plane leaves, you'll have gotten through at least two or three amazing episodes and probably made friends with your equally frustrated neighbor in the seat next to you who may not have had the benefit of listening until you tell them to. Make a new friend, productively pass the time, and find your way around the world smarter than you started. Thanks for spreading the word. Please enjoy my conversation with Nick Rowatdin. Nick, thanks so much for doing this. A pleasure to be here. I'd …

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