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BiggerPockets Money Podcast

AVUV vs VTSAX: Why Small Cap Value Could Outperform

48 min episode · 2 min read
·
Avuv Vs Vtsax

Episode

48 min

Read time

2 min

Topics

Productivity, Personal Finance, Investing

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Factor Diversification Logic: Small cap value and large cap growth historically perform similarly over long periods but diverge significantly at different times. In 2022, AVUV dropped roughly 5% while the S&P 500 fell approximately 25%. Holding both creates rebalancing opportunities — selling the outperformer to buy the underperformer generates a structural return bonus over time.
  • VTSAX Concentration Risk: VTSAX and VOO are effectively the same fund because market-cap weighting funnels roughly 40% of assets into the top 7–10 companies. NVIDIA's rise illustrates how cap-weighted funds become momentum funds by design. Small cap value funds holding thousands of companies carry no equivalent single-stock concentration, making them genuinely more diversified by company count.
  • Algorithm Quality Separates Funds: The Russell 2000 small cap value index applies no profitability filter and historically underperforms by roughly 2% annually versus AVUV. The S&P 600 adds a basic profitability screen. AVUV and its DFA predecessor DFSVX apply a deeper quality filter eliminating the worst-performing companies, which explains the performance gap without requiring active human stock selection.
  • AVUV Is Not Actively Managed: Despite its technical SEC classification as actively managed, AVUV runs a computer algorithm — no humans select individual stocks. The expense ratio sits around 0.20–0.25%. Investors previously paid financial advisors over 1% annually just to access equivalent DFA funds. The current cost structure makes this factor exposure dramatically cheaper than it was before 2015.
  • Historical Crash Protection Pattern: During both the early-1970s Nifty Fifty collapse and the 2000–2003 dot-com crash, value stocks either held flat or gained while large cap growth indexes fell 40–80%. Vasquez argues this pattern makes small cap value worth holding regardless of whether it outperforms long-term — its divergent behavior during large cap crashes provides meaningful downside protection.

What It Covers

Frank Vasquez returns to BiggerPockets Money to explain small cap value investing, why AVUV specifically outperforms standard small cap value indexes, how algorithmic fund construction differs across Russell, S&P 600, and Avantis methodologies, and why pairing small cap value with VTSAX creates meaningful portfolio diversification beyond simple return chasing.

Key Questions Answered

  • Factor Diversification Logic: Small cap value and large cap growth historically perform similarly over long periods but diverge significantly at different times. In 2022, AVUV dropped roughly 5% while the S&P 500 fell approximately 25%. Holding both creates rebalancing opportunities — selling the outperformer to buy the underperformer generates a structural return bonus over time.
  • VTSAX Concentration Risk: VTSAX and VOO are effectively the same fund because market-cap weighting funnels roughly 40% of assets into the top 7–10 companies. NVIDIA's rise illustrates how cap-weighted funds become momentum funds by design. Small cap value funds holding thousands of companies carry no equivalent single-stock concentration, making them genuinely more diversified by company count.
  • Algorithm Quality Separates Funds: The Russell 2000 small cap value index applies no profitability filter and historically underperforms by roughly 2% annually versus AVUV. The S&P 600 adds a basic profitability screen. AVUV and its DFA predecessor DFSVX apply a deeper quality filter eliminating the worst-performing companies, which explains the performance gap without requiring active human stock selection.
  • AVUV Is Not Actively Managed: Despite its technical SEC classification as actively managed, AVUV runs a computer algorithm — no humans select individual stocks. The expense ratio sits around 0.20–0.25%. Investors previously paid financial advisors over 1% annually just to access equivalent DFA funds. The current cost structure makes this factor exposure dramatically cheaper than it was before 2015.
  • Historical Crash Protection Pattern: During both the early-1970s Nifty Fifty collapse and the 2000–2003 dot-com crash, value stocks either held flat or gained while large cap growth indexes fell 40–80%. Vasquez argues this pattern makes small cap value worth holding regardless of whether it outperforms long-term — its divergent behavior during large cap crashes provides meaningful downside protection.

Notable Moment

Vasquez points out that Mindy's AVUV position gained 23% since purchase while her gold position rose 50% — and he reveals he faces the same problem personally, with gold growing to 19% of his portfolio despite targeting 16%, requiring constant selling just to maintain his intended allocation.

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Episode Transcript

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Books, tools, and gear mentioned in this episode

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Tools

Products

  • AVUVRecommended

    by Avantis

    Frank Vasquez returns to BiggerPockets Money to explain small cap value investing, why AVUV specifically outperforms standard small cap value indexes
  • VTSAXRecommended

    by Vanguard

    why pairing small cap value with VTSAX creates meaningful portfolio diversification beyond simple return chasing
  • by Vanguard

    VTSAX and VOO are effectively the same fund because market-cap weighting funnels roughly 40% of assets into the top 7–10 companies
  • by DFA

    AVUV and its DFA predecessor DFSVX apply a deeper quality filter eliminating the worst-performing companies

company

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