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Decagon’s Playbook for Building Enterprise AI Applications

80 min episode · 3 min read
·
Jesse Zhang,Ashwin Srinivas,Sarah Wang

Episode

80 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Productivity, Investing, Startups

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Open Source Model Strategy: Decagon runs 90% of its workflow on fine-tuned open source models, reserving frontier models only for new or exploratory tasks. Fine-tuning smaller models on a single specific task — such as topic classification or bad-actor detection — produces better accuracy, lower latency, and lower cost than using a large general-purpose model. The false trade-off is intelligence versus cost; fine-tuned smaller models can outperform frontier models on targeted tasks across all three dimensions simultaneously.
  • Model Evaluation Framework: Evaluate AI models along three dimensions — cost, intelligence, and latency — and optimize for the limits your use case actually requires. Decagon's evals measure entire system performance end-to-end against customer outcomes, not individual model loss curves. Building proprietary benchmarks tied to specific production tasks is non-negotiable; public eval sets do not capture the nuance of real enterprise workflows and will produce misleading performance signals during fine-tuning.
  • Forward Deployed Engineering Discipline: Forward deployed engineers should produce core product improvements, not one-off customer customizations. Decagon's rule: every feature built during a customer engagement must benefit the next ten customers automatically. Companies that use forward deployed teams to execute bespoke work indefinitely become consulting firms, not scalable software companies. The forward deployed role is a temporary workflow-discovery mechanism that should collapse into product once the workflow is understood and repeatable.
  • Enterprise Sales Velocity: Decagon closes large enterprise contracts faster by mapping the deployment journey in granular detail before signing — including model risk governance, testing protocols, phased rollout sequencing, and issue-resolution processes. Enterprises buy when they can see a clear path from first meeting to 100% live deployment, not just a capable product. Jesse Zhang spends approximately 80% of his time on sales, focusing on shortening deployment timelines and building internal champions across large organizational hierarchies.
  • AI Concierge as Business Front Door: Decagon's long-term product thesis positions AI agents as the primary interface between a business and every customer interaction — reactive support, proactive outreach, and inbound sales qualification. The underlying capability enabling this expansion is improved instruction-following in newer models, which allows agents to handle open-ended, branching conversations rather than only tight, predefined paths. One customer went from deploying three agent journeys in a year with a competitor to seven journeys within one month after switching to Decagon.

What It Covers

Decagon cofounders Jesse Zhang and Ashwin Srinivas explain how they shifted 90% of their AI workflow to open source models, why fine-tuned smaller models outperform frontier models on specific tasks, and how their enterprise AI agent evolved from customer support into a full business-process execution platform serving major banks, airlines, and telcos.

Key Questions Answered

  • Open Source Model Strategy: Decagon runs 90% of its workflow on fine-tuned open source models, reserving frontier models only for new or exploratory tasks. Fine-tuning smaller models on a single specific task — such as topic classification or bad-actor detection — produces better accuracy, lower latency, and lower cost than using a large general-purpose model. The false trade-off is intelligence versus cost; fine-tuned smaller models can outperform frontier models on targeted tasks across all three dimensions simultaneously.
  • Model Evaluation Framework: Evaluate AI models along three dimensions — cost, intelligence, and latency — and optimize for the limits your use case actually requires. Decagon's evals measure entire system performance end-to-end against customer outcomes, not individual model loss curves. Building proprietary benchmarks tied to specific production tasks is non-negotiable; public eval sets do not capture the nuance of real enterprise workflows and will produce misleading performance signals during fine-tuning.
  • Forward Deployed Engineering Discipline: Forward deployed engineers should produce core product improvements, not one-off customer customizations. Decagon's rule: every feature built during a customer engagement must benefit the next ten customers automatically. Companies that use forward deployed teams to execute bespoke work indefinitely become consulting firms, not scalable software companies. The forward deployed role is a temporary workflow-discovery mechanism that should collapse into product once the workflow is understood and repeatable.
  • Enterprise Sales Velocity: Decagon closes large enterprise contracts faster by mapping the deployment journey in granular detail before signing — including model risk governance, testing protocols, phased rollout sequencing, and issue-resolution processes. Enterprises buy when they can see a clear path from first meeting to 100% live deployment, not just a capable product. Jesse Zhang spends approximately 80% of his time on sales, focusing on shortening deployment timelines and building internal champions across large organizational hierarchies.
  • AI Concierge as Business Front Door: Decagon's long-term product thesis positions AI agents as the primary interface between a business and every customer interaction — reactive support, proactive outreach, and inbound sales qualification. The underlying capability enabling this expansion is improved instruction-following in newer models, which allows agents to handle open-ended, branching conversations rather than only tight, predefined paths. One customer went from deploying three agent journeys in a year with a competitor to seven journeys within one month after switching to Decagon.
  • Duet Autopilot — Agent Building Agents: Decagon's Duet Autopilot is a second, slower, frontier-model-powered agent that autonomously writes agent operating procedures, generates integration tools, creates test simulations, monitors live conversations, identifies underperforming topics, and drafts improvements — tasks previously requiring significant human engineering time. This architecture became viable only after reasoning models improved sufficiently. It compresses the time from new customer onboarding to a fully optimized live agent, and represents the productization of work that was originally done manually by forward deployed engineers.

Notable Moment

When asked about Decagon's long-term moat in an AGI scenario, Ashwin Srinivas argued that even a theoretically perfect model cannot be deployed inside a large enterprise without surrounding infrastructure — guardrails, compliance testing, legacy system integration, and collaborative oversight tooling — and that building this infrastructure layer is Decagon's core defensible position for the foreseeable future.

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Episode Transcript

An AI agent should just be the front door of your business. And every interaction, whether it's, like, reactive or proactive with the customer, should be handled by AI. This narrative dominated the first half of twenty twenty six, which is that Anthropic, OpenAI. They're the last startups. They're gonna take over everything. Even once you have AGI, agents are going to need somewhere to store work and pull information from and reason about things. I don't think software as a whole in any meaningful way is going away. Unfortunately, the Frontier Labs, they do have small models, but you can really control them in the way that you want. So today, 90% of our workflow is on open source. On the specific task we want them to do, they actually outperform the large smart state of the art model. The thing that we built was not an agent that does customer support well, but rather an agent that follows business process well. Instead of us having to write these AOPs, Duen just does all of that. Let's say, like, we hit AGI and the models can do all sorts of things we can't even imagine today. What's Dekogon's moat? And, like, why does Dekogon, like, ten years from now still have a right to exist? The biggest breakthroughs in enterprise AI aren't just happening inside foundation models. They're happening in the products built around them. In this episode, Sarah Wang and Kimberly Tan sit down with Dekogon cofounders Jesse Zhang and Ashwin Srinivas to discuss why they shifted most of their AI stack to open source models, how they think about deploying AI inside large enterprises, and why the future of enterprise software will be shaped by AI agents, not just better models. Hey, guys. Welcome back to the studio. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Good to see you. Thank you for being here. Before we get into customer support, I actually wanted to widen out a bit. And Jesse, I'm gonna actually mention a piece that you wrote recently that went pretty viral because it's right in the middle of the zeitgeist of conversation right now on open source versus closed source models. And then Thinking Machines, KVK three, some very interesting open source models came out sort of right after. And there's this really interesting debate going on around what does it mean to own your destiny when it comes to AI, especially in the enterprise, and what does that evolution look like by use case? So, actually, since that's a pretty live topic right now, why don't we start there? Sounds good. So I'm gonna talk about our journey first just to make it very concrete for people. So when we started the company, the goal was just to get something working. Right? When you're the goal is to get something working, of course, you're just gonna use the frontier models because you wanna get something out there and have they actually deliver value. And so …

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