Brené with Anand Giridharadas on The Persuaders, Part 2 of 2

Hi, everyone. I'm Brene Brown, and this is Unlocking Us. Welcome to part two of our interview with Anand Giridharadas, author of The Persuaders at the Front Lines of the fight for hearts, minds, and democracy. I think I told Barrett before this. I told you I thought the podcast would last how long, like, a recording, like an hour and fifteen minutes or something? Yeah. Did it last three hours? Yes. They're like, we're running out of tape. We're running out of battery. Our our cards are full. I'm like, I don't care. Shut up. It's so interesting. I'm glad you're here. Part two of a conversation about his new book, The Persuaders, at the front lines for the fight for hearts, minds, and democracy. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump into the conversation. At Criminal, we've made it a tradition every December to dedicate an episode entirely to animals who are really going for it. And Tony, what happened when you pulled over? Nothing out of the ordinary until I saw the cat on the back of the roof behind the luggage carrier. Listen to our fifth annual Animals episode on Criminal wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get started, let me introduce you to Anand Girardas. He is the author of the international bestseller Winners Take All, The True American, and India Calling. He's a former foreign correspondent and columnist for The New York Times for more than a decade. He's also written for The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and Time. He's the publisher of the newsletter V dot Inc. He is an on air political analyst for MSNBC. He's received the Radcliffe Fellowship, the Porchlight Business Book of the Year award, Harvard University's outstanding lifetime achievement award for humanism and culture, and the New York Public Library's Helen Bernstein Book Award for excellence in journalism. He lives in Brooklyn. They have two kids. Who is they? He's married to a total yeah. Drum roll. Fan favorite of unlocking us and dare to lead, Priya Parker. Let's jump in. Welcome back. Thank you. I'm still thinking about your story, how you see the world, your experiences, and how all of that allowed you to bring us the persuaders. Have you thought about it at all? I am now. You know, I think let me put it this way. From when I was first at the New York Times, 2005, foreign correspondent, you know, just do the news. As I I told you in the last episode, I wasn't in this, I'd been doing conventional news, but I was an objective New York Times reporter calling it the way I saw it facts first, facts only. And I left the Times in 2016, September 2016. I was kind of just reorganized out. It wasn't a big drama. It was just like there wasn't a new place for me in the thing that was happening. I was so distressed, eleven years. My whole identity was the New …