Building with LLMs, Finding a Co-founder & Other Listener Questions

Welcome to Rework, a podcast by thirty seven Signals about the better way to work and run your business. I'm Kimberly Rhodes with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hanssen, cofounders of thirty seven Signals. This week, we are knocking out some listener questions. We got some video questions in, which we love to receive. The first one is from Ryan. This is Ryan Chitwood. I'm an independent iOS app developer on the side. And since I work by myself, I've been wondering about adapting your setup of one designer and one developer comprising a team. What do you think about these days with the advent of LN tools like Cloud Code? You know, these are getting pretty good at coding at this point. What do you think about teams of one, that being a designer with some development skills, using a Cloud Code or something like that as filling in the developer portion there. I don't know if y'all are ever thinking about moving to that model at 37 signals, but what do you think about for an independent person like me? Thanks. David, I'm gonna start with you. And then, Jason, I'm sure you have some things to add on the designer side. I think this is one of the most amazing things about the LLMs, and it's something we've seen already at 37 signals, in a big way. JC, in particular, have been really good on our team of just running ahead of programmers, and he is able to produce so much more, so much faster with the LMS than he was before. Now it all depends on what kind of fidelity you need. At our scale, the number of customers we have and the criticality that we're dealing with, we can't usually ship a bunch of LOM code into production. It's still just not good enough for that yet. There's obvious errors, obvious mistakes. There's barely a day that goes by right now without someone getting exposed online for shipping some LLM slop that then left a huge security hole. There was just this whole bit about tea. I don't know if you saw this this app where Oh, that that tea app. Women could talk about their experiences with men. And, apparently, it was done by this guy who literally had six months of experience as a programmer on a boot camp, and I'm sure used a bunch of LLMs, and everything was basically just wide open. So here you had a runaway success app that spilled the tea on 2,000,000 women because it basically wasn't locked down. And that's, of course, sort of the nightmare scenario. Not that these things can happen with, quote, unquote, real programmers, human programs, whatever you wanna call it, but it's far less likely that it's going to happen. So I would look at what kind of apps are you working on? Are you working on things where if use of data got leaked, it's potentially a major, major problem? …