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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

139 min episode · 4 min read
·
Rick Perry

Episode

139 min

Read time

4 min

Topics

Health & Wellness, Startups, Fundraising & VC

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • State-led drug development: When federal agencies are stymied by bureaucratic capture and pharmaceutical industry influence, individual states can fund and execute FDA drug development trials independently. Texas's $100 million commitment creates a legal pathway where states pool resources and political influence to force federal responsiveness. Advocates targeting state legislatures should build coalitions of 30 committed citizens with personal stakes, then pursue a five-month legislative campaign targeting each legislator individually with science, policy, and personal testimony.
  • Ibogaine addiction interruption rates: A single oral dose of ibogaine eliminates opioid physiological dependency in 48 to 72 hours, with Stanford functional MRI scans showing brain activity normalizing to match a healthy brain within that same window — a process that takes 18 months through abstinence programs with single-digit success rates. Two doses produce a 98% interruption rate across opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, and tobacco, compared to a 75% failure rate for current pharmaceutical treatments costing $700,000 per patient.
  • Neuroplasticity window advantage: Different psychedelic compounds produce different windows of neuroplasticity — the period when the brain can be retrained and healed. Ketamine produces a 48 to 72 hour window, psilocybin 14 to 28 days, but ibogaine produces a 90 to 120 day critical period. This extended window makes ibogaine uniquely suited for treating complex, layered trauma and addiction where sustained neural reorganization is required, giving clinicians and patients a far longer therapeutic intervention period than any other compound.
  • Brain atrophy reversal in non-trauma patients: Rick Perry, who had no history of substance abuse or childhood trauma but sustained three severe concussions during his life, underwent ibogaine treatment and received brain scans at baseline, one week post-treatment, and six months post-treatment. His prefrontal cortex activity increased 27% at one week. At six months, his neurosurgeon confirmed the atrophy present at baseline had disappeared entirely, with his brain presenting imaging characteristics consistent with a 40-year-old. This suggests ibogaine's neuroregenerative capacity extends beyond addiction and PTSD populations.
  • Federal Right to Try leverage: Under the 2018 Federal Right to Try Act authored by former Senator Kyrsten Sinema, any patient with a life-threatening condition can request access to a medication that has cleared FDA phase one safety testing from a willing prescriber. Once Texas completes ibogaine's phase one trial, opioid-dependent patients could legally request treatment immediately — except the DEA has unilaterally asserted that schedule one substances are excluded from the law despite no such language existing in the statute. Advocates should pressure the DEA to honor the law as written.

What It Covers

Former Texas Governor Rick Perry and Americans for Ibogaine co-founder W. Bryan Hubbard reveal that Texas has committed $100 million to fund the first unified FDA drug development trial for ibogaine, a psychedelic compound derived from the African iboga shrub, with 181 of 188 Texas legislators voting yes and multiple additional states passing parallel legislation to accelerate federal approval.

Key Questions Answered

  • State-led drug development: When federal agencies are stymied by bureaucratic capture and pharmaceutical industry influence, individual states can fund and execute FDA drug development trials independently. Texas's $100 million commitment creates a legal pathway where states pool resources and political influence to force federal responsiveness. Advocates targeting state legislatures should build coalitions of 30 committed citizens with personal stakes, then pursue a five-month legislative campaign targeting each legislator individually with science, policy, and personal testimony.
  • Ibogaine addiction interruption rates: A single oral dose of ibogaine eliminates opioid physiological dependency in 48 to 72 hours, with Stanford functional MRI scans showing brain activity normalizing to match a healthy brain within that same window — a process that takes 18 months through abstinence programs with single-digit success rates. Two doses produce a 98% interruption rate across opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, and tobacco, compared to a 75% failure rate for current pharmaceutical treatments costing $700,000 per patient.
  • Neuroplasticity window advantage: Different psychedelic compounds produce different windows of neuroplasticity — the period when the brain can be retrained and healed. Ketamine produces a 48 to 72 hour window, psilocybin 14 to 28 days, but ibogaine produces a 90 to 120 day critical period. This extended window makes ibogaine uniquely suited for treating complex, layered trauma and addiction where sustained neural reorganization is required, giving clinicians and patients a far longer therapeutic intervention period than any other compound.
  • Brain atrophy reversal in non-trauma patients: Rick Perry, who had no history of substance abuse or childhood trauma but sustained three severe concussions during his life, underwent ibogaine treatment and received brain scans at baseline, one week post-treatment, and six months post-treatment. His prefrontal cortex activity increased 27% at one week. At six months, his neurosurgeon confirmed the atrophy present at baseline had disappeared entirely, with his brain presenting imaging characteristics consistent with a 40-year-old. This suggests ibogaine's neuroregenerative capacity extends beyond addiction and PTSD populations.
  • Federal Right to Try leverage: Under the 2018 Federal Right to Try Act authored by former Senator Kyrsten Sinema, any patient with a life-threatening condition can request access to a medication that has cleared FDA phase one safety testing from a willing prescriber. Once Texas completes ibogaine's phase one trial, opioid-dependent patients could legally request treatment immediately — except the DEA has unilaterally asserted that schedule one substances are excluded from the law despite no such language existing in the statute. Advocates should pressure the DEA to honor the law as written.
  • Multi-state legislative momentum as federal forcing function: Americans for Ibogaine convened 200 state officials from 22 states in Aspen in November to coordinate parallel ibogaine legislation. West Virginia passed its bill unanimously in both chambers, Mississippi passed 111 to 1 in the house and 51 to 1 in the senate, Tennessee's senate finance committee voted 11 to 0 to advance its bill, Oklahoma's house passed its bill, and Kentucky's senate passed 35 to 2. The strategy treats state appropriations as an unstoppable external force designed to crash through federal inaction by creating an irreversible unified FDA trial.
  • Ibogaine's scope beyond addiction: Emerging evidence and field reports indicate ibogaine produces measurable improvements across traumatic brain injury, CTE in former NFL and NHL players, young-onset Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, and post-surgical brain complications. A woman with young-onset Parkinson's who had lost the ability to write due to hand tremors reported full restoration of function four months after a single treatment. The Center for Brain Health at UT Dallas is launching a three-year study tracking cognition, sleep, substance use, and neuroimaging across 18 months post-treatment.

Notable Moment

Thirty-six hours before the Texas budget was finalized, ibogaine funding was absent from the bill. After a last-minute meeting with the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick — arranged only after Marcus and Morgan Luttrell gave personal testimony about ibogaine saving their lives — Patrick confirmed full $100 million state funding the following morning, abandoning the original public-private partnership model entirely.

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Episode Transcript

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Showing my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Gentlemen, great to see yeah. Put him on. Slap him on. What's happening? Good to see you, gentlemen, again. Taking off. You as well. One more time. Yeah. One more time. Yeah. So, what is the latest? Give me the latest. Where are we at? Why don't you take it, Brian? You just kinda you you are the, you're the most current on where we are, what's going on. Man, there has been a lot of stuff happened in the fifteen months since we were here. I mean, like, stunning amount of stuff. So let's not waste any time. Tell them where we're at. Alright. Well, the last time we came to visit with you, I believe, was on 12/27/2024. We were just on the front end of having organized 30 committed Texans whose own families had had experiences related to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds of war, who after hearing a plan that was developed for the state of Kentucky to bring Ibogaine to the American people as an FDA approved medication and breakthrough treatment for addiction and trauma committed themselves to using their time, their talent, and their network to achieve what had never been done before, and that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug development to create a therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health crises within its borders that are representative of the national reality. After you released the interview with us on 01/02/2025, we pursued a five and a half month blistering campaign to convince a 188 blank slate Texas legislators to fund the single largest psychedelic research and medical development project in history. That'd be in the $50,000,000 Texas Abigail initiative. We had the assistance of some in state allies, one of which was Texans for Greater Mental Health led by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson, who was my right hand, going to meet with legislators continuously while I set up shop at a hotel here in Halston and lived here just about part time. Wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who needed to be introduced, educated, and motivated to get behind this would do so. At the end of this five and a half months, we secured the votes of yes of a 181 out of a 188 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives and State Senate. There was one individual who we had to persuade at the eleventh hour to get behind this project. On 05/14/2025, just thirty six hours before the Texas budget was finalized, this bill that would create the first unified FDA drug development trial with Ibogaine in US history was not funded. I woke up that morning, and I'm not some I believe very much in keeping your prayers in the closet as Jesus taught and not getting out there parading about it. But on …

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