The A.I. Revolt Is Here
Episode
78 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Investing, Fundraising & VC, Marketing
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓NDA Backfire: AI companies requiring city council members to sign non-disclosure agreements before data center negotiations has been the single biggest driver of local opposition. Officials cannot counter social media rumors because NDAs prevent transparency. Microsoft has since abandoned the practice, and other labs are reconsidering. Every pro-data-center stakeholder Sun interviewed — including construction unions — agreed NDAs made opposition significantly worse.
- ✓The Trust Deficit: Communities reject pro-data-center arguments not because the facts are wrong, but because institutional trust has collapsed. When companies promise stable electricity rates, clean water handling, or 500 jobs, residents in Wisconsin and Michigan respond with "I don't believe them." Marquette Law Poll director Charles Franklin notes 70/30 opposition exists even among people who don't live near data centers — meaning this exceeds standard NIMBYism.
- ✓Foxconn as Template: The Foxconn collapse in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin — where a company promised 13,000 jobs, received hundreds of millions in infrastructure subsidies, and delivered roughly 1,000 jobs — now shapes how Midwestern communities evaluate every large tech investment. Residents ask who holds the liability if an AI bubble pops and a half-built or abandoned data center becomes a stranded asset, as the GM plant left $30 million in unresolved contamination in Janesville.
- ✓AI Populism as Political Identity: Opposition to data centers functions as a proxy for broader distrust of Silicon Valley billionaires imposing decisions on communities without consent. Sun defines AI populism as viewing AI not as neutral technology but as an elite political project. This framing unites Ron DeSantis hosting roundtables with MIT professor Max Tegmark and Bernie Sanders making viral videos with AI risk researcher Eliezer Yudkowsky — a coalition with different fears but shared resistance.
- ✓The Race Metaphor's Policy Consequences: Whether one believes AI development resembles a winner-take-all race toward recursive self-improvement determines nearly every downstream policy position. If no decisive finish line exists — and current frontier models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Chinese labs show no clear separation — then slowing down carries lower geopolitical risk than companies claim. Restricting domestic data centers without international coordination simply shifts construction to Texas, Louisiana, Gulf states, or authoritarian countries with fewer democratic constraints.
What It Covers
Journalist Jasmine Sun reports on the bipartisan backlash against AI data centers after a reporting trip through Wisconsin and Michigan. Opposition grew from 40% to 70% of voters in under a year. The episode examines how NDA secrecy, energy costs, the Foxconn precedent, and distrust of tech billionaires are converging into a broader AI populism movement.
Key Questions Answered
- •NDA Backfire: AI companies requiring city council members to sign non-disclosure agreements before data center negotiations has been the single biggest driver of local opposition. Officials cannot counter social media rumors because NDAs prevent transparency. Microsoft has since abandoned the practice, and other labs are reconsidering. Every pro-data-center stakeholder Sun interviewed — including construction unions — agreed NDAs made opposition significantly worse.
- •The Trust Deficit: Communities reject pro-data-center arguments not because the facts are wrong, but because institutional trust has collapsed. When companies promise stable electricity rates, clean water handling, or 500 jobs, residents in Wisconsin and Michigan respond with "I don't believe them." Marquette Law Poll director Charles Franklin notes 70/30 opposition exists even among people who don't live near data centers — meaning this exceeds standard NIMBYism.
- •Foxconn as Template: The Foxconn collapse in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin — where a company promised 13,000 jobs, received hundreds of millions in infrastructure subsidies, and delivered roughly 1,000 jobs — now shapes how Midwestern communities evaluate every large tech investment. Residents ask who holds the liability if an AI bubble pops and a half-built or abandoned data center becomes a stranded asset, as the GM plant left $30 million in unresolved contamination in Janesville.
- •AI Populism as Political Identity: Opposition to data centers functions as a proxy for broader distrust of Silicon Valley billionaires imposing decisions on communities without consent. Sun defines AI populism as viewing AI not as neutral technology but as an elite political project. This framing unites Ron DeSantis hosting roundtables with MIT professor Max Tegmark and Bernie Sanders making viral videos with AI risk researcher Eliezer Yudkowsky — a coalition with different fears but shared resistance.
- •The Race Metaphor's Policy Consequences: Whether one believes AI development resembles a winner-take-all race toward recursive self-improvement determines nearly every downstream policy position. If no decisive finish line exists — and current frontier models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Chinese labs show no clear separation — then slowing down carries lower geopolitical risk than companies claim. Restricting domestic data centers without international coordination simply shifts construction to Texas, Louisiana, Gulf states, or authoritarian countries with fewer democratic constraints.
- •Compute Scarcity Creates Inequality: Constricting data center construction while AI demand continues rising concentrates access among entities with existing capital — large corporations and governments — rather than small businesses or individual users. Simultaneously, frontier model access is already narrowing as companies like Anthropic restrict their most capable models due to both safety concerns and insufficient compute capacity, meaning the gap between institutional and public AI access widens regardless of regulatory intent.
Notable Moment
Sun describes attending an Abdul El-Sayed rally in Lansing, then visiting a Saline Township data center site the next day. Saline's council voted against rezoning, but the developer sued the small township into settling. Residents described this as a textbook example of corporate money overriding local democratic decisions — the same oligarchy narrative dominating the rally the night before.
Episode Transcript
To everyone looking to make dinner a little more exciting, our team member Joey is here to introduce Culver's new fried pickle pub burger. We start with fresh, never frozen beef and layer on crispy fried dill pickles, real Wisconsin cheddar, and some tangy brewpub sauce, all on a soft pretzel bun. You can add a Doctor Pepper for a perfect pickled pepper pairing that's hard to beat. That was a tongue twister. But it's only at Culver's for a limited time, so come try it before it's gone. From Wisconsin with love, welcome to delicious. What is big, ugly, and has united Republicans and Democrats at a time when it has felt like nothing else could? AI data centers. Last August, a heat map news poll found that about four in 10 voters would oppose a data center being built where they live. By May of this year, opposition grew to seven in 10. Florida governor Ron DeSantis, a Republican, of course, has proposed a new citizens bill of rights for AI. The incentives of big tech are not the same as what's in the interest of the people and the public. Senator Bernie Sanders called for a national data center moratorium. This moratorium will give democracy a chance to catch up with the transformative changes that we are witnessing and make sure that the benefits of these technologies work for all of us, not just the wealthiest people on Earth. There are over a 100 local or statewide moratorium proposals across the country. And here in New York, governor Kathy Hochul, not usually thought of as a hardcore populist, just imposed a one year moratorium on data center construction. These hyperscale AI data centers consume enormous amounts of power, truly threatening to outpace our grid's capacity, and they drive up costs for local ratepayers. And I refuse to let those costs be passed on to New Yorkers who already paid too much for their utility bills. So I wanted to get into the fight over data centers. How much of this is really about water or electricity or aesthetics? And how much is about AI itself and the companies that are behind it? My guest today is Jasmine Sun. Jasmine has been doing excellent coverage about the culture inside the AI companies, unusual culture, and the anger that is building against them in the rest of the country. I highly recommend following her substack but right now she just finished her reporting trip in the Midwest. Talking to the people organizing against these data centers and I wanted to hear what she'd learned. Jasmine Sun, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to be here. So you just got back from a reporting trip in Wisconsin and Michigan covering the fight over data centers. Let's just start with what you see when you're near a data center. What does it look like? I think one of the most important things about rural Wisconsin and rural Michigan is how …
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