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The Diary of a CEO

Likeability Expert: Stop Doing This, It’s Why People Quietly Avoid You! | Vanessa Van Edwards

146 min episode · 3 min read
·
Likeability Expert

Episode

146 min

Read time

3 min

Topics

Career Growth, Remote Work, Relationships

AI-Generated Summary

Key Takeaways

  • Conversation Openers Ranked: A speed networking study with 500 participants ranked six conversation starters by connection quality. "What do you do" ranked last and "how are you" ranked fifth — both trigger autopilot responses and dead-end fact exchanges. The top performer was "what was the highlight of your day," which breaks scripted responses, prompts optimistic thinking, and generates genuine story without feeling invasive or overly deep for a first interaction.
  • Three-Level Conversation Framework: Psychologist Dan McAdams' research identifies three distinct conversation levels: Level 1 (general traits — basic facts and stories), Level 2 (personal concerns — goals, motivations, worries), and Level 3 (self-narrative — how someone frames their life story). Skipping levels causes discomfort; asking "what's your story" at Level 1 triggers cortisol and conversational fear. Each level must be earned sequentially before advancing to the next.
  • Overtalker Detection — The 15-Second Rule: Research from the Candor Corpus identifies 15 to 30 seconds as the appropriate conversational turn length. At 45 seconds, a turn becomes a monologue. To self-diagnose, record a Zoom call and time each speaking turn. A five-question self-test also flags overtalking: answering "often" to three or more questions — including "I leave conversations not knowing much about the other person" — signals the problem.
  • Entertainer vs. Appreciator Typology: Two conversational personality types require opposite engagement strategies. Entertainers talk more, want audiences for their stories, and respond best to questions that invite them to perform. Appreciators talk less, prefer listening, and disengage when questioned heavily — they respond better when others share stories first. Misreading an entertainer as someone who needs questions, or an appreciator as someone who wants to be interviewed, creates friction and missed connection.
  • Dream Building at Level 2: The core skill of Level 2 conversation is "dream building" — helping someone surface and articulate a private goal, side project, or worry they haven't voiced publicly. Effective Level 2 questions include "what have you always wanted to learn," "what's your biggest goal right now," and identifying someone's "pet project" (a hope they nurture) versus their "pest project" (a problem causing shame). Asking about goals activates dopamine and gives the other person motivation through conversation.

What It Covers

Behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards presents a research-backed three-level conversation framework drawn from 20 years of study and experiments with 500 speed networkers. She covers why standard openers like "what do you do" and "how are you" kill connection, how to identify overtalkers, and how personal narratives shape life outcomes — with specific techniques applicable to dating, hiring, and leadership.

Key Questions Answered

  • Conversation Openers Ranked: A speed networking study with 500 participants ranked six conversation starters by connection quality. "What do you do" ranked last and "how are you" ranked fifth — both trigger autopilot responses and dead-end fact exchanges. The top performer was "what was the highlight of your day," which breaks scripted responses, prompts optimistic thinking, and generates genuine story without feeling invasive or overly deep for a first interaction.
  • Three-Level Conversation Framework: Psychologist Dan McAdams' research identifies three distinct conversation levels: Level 1 (general traits — basic facts and stories), Level 2 (personal concerns — goals, motivations, worries), and Level 3 (self-narrative — how someone frames their life story). Skipping levels causes discomfort; asking "what's your story" at Level 1 triggers cortisol and conversational fear. Each level must be earned sequentially before advancing to the next.
  • Overtalker Detection — The 15-Second Rule: Research from the Candor Corpus identifies 15 to 30 seconds as the appropriate conversational turn length. At 45 seconds, a turn becomes a monologue. To self-diagnose, record a Zoom call and time each speaking turn. A five-question self-test also flags overtalking: answering "often" to three or more questions — including "I leave conversations not knowing much about the other person" — signals the problem.
  • Entertainer vs. Appreciator Typology: Two conversational personality types require opposite engagement strategies. Entertainers talk more, want audiences for their stories, and respond best to questions that invite them to perform. Appreciators talk less, prefer listening, and disengage when questioned heavily — they respond better when others share stories first. Misreading an entertainer as someone who needs questions, or an appreciator as someone who wants to be interviewed, creates friction and missed connection.
  • Dream Building at Level 2: The core skill of Level 2 conversation is "dream building" — helping someone surface and articulate a private goal, side project, or worry they haven't voiced publicly. Effective Level 2 questions include "what have you always wanted to learn," "what's your biggest goal right now," and identifying someone's "pet project" (a hope they nurture) versus their "pest project" (a problem causing shame). Asking about goals activates dopamine and gives the other person motivation through conversation.
  • Redemption vs. Contamination Narratives: Level 3 conversation accesses self-narrative — the internal story someone tells about their life. People with redemption narratives believe they can overcome adversity and demonstrate longer lifespans, stronger immune systems, and better relationships. People with contamination narratives see hardship as permanent and uncontrollable. A simple diagnostic question — "do you feel lucky?" — reveals narrative type quickly. Speed of answer and use of absolute words like "always" or "never" signal contamination framing.
  • Communication Friction Costs Companies: Connected teams outperform disconnected ones because reduced communication friction eliminates information silos, increases psychological safety, and improves collaboration. A practical team intervention: open weekly meetings with "tell me something good," time-boxed to under five minutes, where each person shares one win. This creates frictionless Level 1 connection without requiring deep personal disclosure. Competence without conversational warmth triggers suspicion in colleagues and undermines perceived credibility regardless of actual skill level.

Notable Moment

Van Edwards describes attending a party where guests were prohibited from discussing their jobs — a rule that initially caused panic among high-achieving attendees. The constraint forced everyone off conversational autopilot and prompted genuinely creative questions. She reframed the experience as evidence that the best Level 1 conversations function as treasure hunts, not résumé exchanges, and that removing default topics unlocks far richer connection.

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Episode Transcript

How do you know you talk too much? So first thing is nonverbal cues. Someone is checking out if they are opening their mouth as if to say something. I call it the open fish. And that's a subtle cue that you talk too much. Do you think they're listening right now and think, fuck, that's me? Yes. And there was a recent study when they found that 95% of people have worked with someone who talks too much. Well, I have a do you talk too much test. So there's five questions here. And if you answer more than three times, you're probably an over talker. Yeah. Because my next question is like, which one's worse over talking or under talking? Well, I have spent the last 20 years studying master conversationalists. And I found that it's the vehicle to get what you want. And I'm a recovering awkward person. And I really struggled with bad conversation for a long time. But I think the next generations will be talking to technology more than they talk to humans. And because we're having less conversations, one in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness. And I now more than ever am sending nine minute voice notes to my friends. But a voice note, it's the most selfish form of conversation. But in this age of technological change, the people who are masterful at conversation are going to have an advantage. But there's a blueprint to good conversation. And once you know the blueprint, it becomes easier. For example, we devised three different speed networking experiments with 500 speed networkers. And the best conversation starter was actually what was the highlight of your day. Because the moment we asked, how are you? What do you do? They ran out of things to talk about. But the worst question in the history of conversations is what's... But I also have a formula to immediately bypass that small talk. Also a secret door into charisma. But also there are five archetypes. And this is going to impact getting our promotion and finding your soulmate. We're going to go through one of them. But what are the ways to get out of the bad conversation about offending people? Well, we tend to focus a lot on the first impression. But we don't really think about the end. But it's all really important. And I discovered this framework. So... Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins. The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed. So when we have our best episodes on this show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know. And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button. But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make this show better. And I would be hugely grateful …

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