The War Keeps Raging Against Science

Hi. I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and you're listening to Science Versus. Today on the show, the unprecedented and sometimes rather strange things that have been happening to science in The US recently. Milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard, so they say. But recently, they've also been courting some controversy. Rose Rimmelitt, senior producer at Science Versus, tell us about the milkshakes. Okay. So this all started a couple months ago. Researchers at the NIH, that's the National Institutes of Health, they published a study where they gave people ultra processed milkshakes. So these are vanilla shakes. They were loaded with fat and sugar, like all milkshakes, but also emulsifiers and artificial flavorings, that kind of stuff. And then they put these people into PET scanners. PET scanners? They're scanning their brains? What what did they wanna know? They were testing out this idea that certain foods might be as addictive as drugs. So, you know, you often hear people say that about sugar. Right. And it's also an idea that's out there about ultra processed foods, that they might be addictive. Mhmm. So what the scientists at the NIH wanted to see was whether drinking a milkshake could cause someone's brain to send out a big whoosh of dopamine in the same way that you might see with addictive drugs. Right? Like that happens with cocaine, for example. So what was the milkshake Bringing all the dopamine to the yard? Yeah. Bringing all the dopamine to the yard. No. So as a rule, drinking the milkshake did not lead to a big rush of dopamine. Uh-huh. And that doesn't mean that ultra processed food or sugar is considered healthy now, but it throws a little cold water on the idea that these foods are addictive in the same way that drugs are addictive. Right. Right. But here's where the story takes a weird turn. And this is why I wanted to talk to you about it, Wendy, for this episode that we're doing now, which is not about milkshakes or ultra processed food or sugar. No. So around the same time that this study came out, a reporter from the New York Times reached out to the researchers asking for an interview. So the lead scientist on this is a nutrition researcher named Kevin Hall. He's very famous in the world of nutrition. He's interviewed all the time. Okay. We've interviewed him here on Science Versus, and I reached out to him again recently about all this. We talked over email. So the protocol that he follows before these interviews is he reaches out to his overlords at the NIH to let them know about the request and that he wants to do the interview. But this time, for the first time, according to Kevin, the NIH said no. They denied his request. He he also says that they quashed a press release that was gonna come out about the study. So it seemed to him that the NIH …