Jonathan Lewinsohn – Credit Microcycles at Diameter (EP.484)
Episode
74 min
Read time
3 min
Topics
Productivity, Health & Wellness, Relationships
AI-Generated Summary
Key Takeaways
- ✓Credit Microcycles Framework: Best distressed opportunities emerge when entire industries with high debt loads face technological transformation or policy volatility simultaneously. Historical examples include energy in 2015-2016, California power crisis, mall-based retail disruption by Amazon, and current cycles in telecom, housing, and software. These create buying opportunities in fundamentally sound businesses that need capital solutions to navigate temporary industry upheaval rather than permanent decline.
- ✓Software Lending Risk: Direct lending portfolios contain approximately 30 percent exposure to software companies, concentrated in supposedly defensive areas like cybersecurity. Legacy on-premise software providers face disruption from cloud-native competitors and AI solutions that standardize data and workflows. Diameter maintains sub-10 percent software exposure in direct lending, focusing on companies where AI cannot easily replicate functionality or where businesses can participate in AI adoption rather than be disrupted by it.
- ✓Housing Market Dynamics: Existing home sales dropped from 5-5.5 million annually to 4 million, with approximately 3 million representing nondiscretionary moves from deaths, divorces, and mortgage-free homes. Only 1 million discretionary moves occur annually versus historical norms, creating a coiled spring effect. This freeze stems from homeowners locked into 3 percent mortgages unable to trade for 7 percent rates, reducing American labor mobility and economic dynamism significantly.
- ✓Private Credit Evolution: Direct lending represents top-of-capital-structure lending to sponsors for M&A transactions, while capital solutions addresses 2021-2022 vintage deals with unsustainable debt service coverage ratios. Quantitative analysis shows those vintage deals had higher leverage and lower debt service coverage than current deals, creating secular demand for junior capital to bridge refinancing gaps. Asset-liability duration matching post-financial crisis transformed private credit from hedge fund strategy to sustainable asset class.
- ✓Return on Invested Capital Focus: Credit investing starts with identifying good businesses through return on invested capital analysis, taking tax-affected EBIT divided by property, plant, equipment or five-year average capital expenditures. Businesses earning strong returns typically have structural advantages like limited competition or distribution monopolies. This equity-like underwriting approach differs from traditional credit analysis focused solely on capital structure positioning, reducing losses from deteriorating business fundamentals.
What It Covers
Jonathan Lewinsohn, co-managing partner of Diameter Capital Partners managing $25 billion across credit strategies, discusses credit microcycles driven by technological disruption and policy volatility. He covers private credit evolution, AI's impact on software lending, housing market dynamics, creditor competition, insurance-driven investment grade markets, and specific opportunities in telecom, chemicals, and healthcare services.
Key Questions Answered
- •Credit Microcycles Framework: Best distressed opportunities emerge when entire industries with high debt loads face technological transformation or policy volatility simultaneously. Historical examples include energy in 2015-2016, California power crisis, mall-based retail disruption by Amazon, and current cycles in telecom, housing, and software. These create buying opportunities in fundamentally sound businesses that need capital solutions to navigate temporary industry upheaval rather than permanent decline.
- •Software Lending Risk: Direct lending portfolios contain approximately 30 percent exposure to software companies, concentrated in supposedly defensive areas like cybersecurity. Legacy on-premise software providers face disruption from cloud-native competitors and AI solutions that standardize data and workflows. Diameter maintains sub-10 percent software exposure in direct lending, focusing on companies where AI cannot easily replicate functionality or where businesses can participate in AI adoption rather than be disrupted by it.
- •Housing Market Dynamics: Existing home sales dropped from 5-5.5 million annually to 4 million, with approximately 3 million representing nondiscretionary moves from deaths, divorces, and mortgage-free homes. Only 1 million discretionary moves occur annually versus historical norms, creating a coiled spring effect. This freeze stems from homeowners locked into 3 percent mortgages unable to trade for 7 percent rates, reducing American labor mobility and economic dynamism significantly.
- •Private Credit Evolution: Direct lending represents top-of-capital-structure lending to sponsors for M&A transactions, while capital solutions addresses 2021-2022 vintage deals with unsustainable debt service coverage ratios. Quantitative analysis shows those vintage deals had higher leverage and lower debt service coverage than current deals, creating secular demand for junior capital to bridge refinancing gaps. Asset-liability duration matching post-financial crisis transformed private credit from hedge fund strategy to sustainable asset class.
- •Return on Invested Capital Focus: Credit investing starts with identifying good businesses through return on invested capital analysis, taking tax-affected EBIT divided by property, plant, equipment or five-year average capital expenditures. Businesses earning strong returns typically have structural advantages like limited competition or distribution monopolies. This equity-like underwriting approach differs from traditional credit analysis focused solely on capital structure positioning, reducing losses from deteriorating business fundamentals.
- •Insurance-Driven IG Market: Annuity product growth creates demand for investment-grade-like assets yielding 50-200 basis points above traditional IG through illiquidity premiums matched to long-duration liabilities. The risk emerges in structured products creating senior tranches for insurers while leaving residual stumps offering mid-teens returns without near-term cash flow. These stumps accumulate in special situations funds and interval funds where investors may not understand extended periods without cash distributions.
Notable Moment
Lewinsohn reveals that during a December 26 crisis call, a private equity sponsor needed to complete a dividend recapitalization within five days to return capital to limited partners before year-end. Because Diameter owned both the syndicated debt in CLOs and bonds in their hedge fund, they possessed deep company knowledge enabling rapid execution where larger, siloed competitors could not respond effectively.
Episode Transcript
What it means is the best opportunity for distressed has been microcycles. Go back during just my career and Scott's career when the muni market got blown up because of some choice words said by a famous analyst after the financial crisis. Even the European kind of double dip recession in the peripheral countries. Then the energy microcycle in twenty fifteen, sixteen. The California power microcycle, which most of California was impacted by in many counterparties. When Amazon and online retail upended mall based retail and mall based real estate, then after COVID, what we've seen in telecom, we're seeing now in housing, we could see in software. It means with a whole industry that has a lot of debt is impacted by either technological transformation or policy volatility or both. And handling things when you have a lot of debt is the problem. I'm Ted Seides, and this is Capital Allocators. My guest on today's show is Jonathan Lewinson, co managing partner of Diameter Capital Partners, a credit focused investment firm he founded with Scott Goodwin in 2017 that manages $25,000,000,000 across hedge fund, dislocation, CLO, and direct lending strategies. Jonathan last appeared on the show five years ago, interviewed by Kristen Van Gelder from Evanston Capital, and that conversation is replayed in the feed. Our conversation offers a comprehensive credit market update, including Jonathan's take on the business of credit investing, private credit, industry microcycles in AI, housing, telecom, chemicals, and healthcare, competition among creditors, the insurance driven investment grade market, and the importance of macro awareness in credit investing. John's blend of investment insights and market opportunities is a real treat and comes on the occasion of a likely public listing of a diameter BDC. Before we get going, have you noticed that airline travel takes a lot longer these days? Security lines go on as far as the eye can see, and that's even with pre check, clear, or the pre check clear combo. And flights seem to get delayed regularly for no apparent reason. Well, the next time you have even an inkling of a delay and long before you have to board, deboard, board again, and sit on the tarmac for an hour before you leave, might I suggest you fill that idle time with successive episodes of capital allocators? By the time your plane leaves, you'll have gone through at least two or three amazing episodes and probably made friends with your equally frustrated neighbor in the seat next to you who may not have had the benefit of listening until you tell them to. Make a new friend, productively pass the time, and find your way around the world smarter than you started. Thanks for spreading the word. Capital Allocators is brought to you by AlphaSense. AlphaSense connects and accelerates every element of your research process, and I'm excited they chose to be our lead sponsor this year. One of the hardest parts of investing is seeing what's shifting before everyone else …
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