Basecamp | Hiring | How to have a calm company

This podcast is hosted by transistor dot f m. Hey, everyone. Welcome to build your SaaS. This is the behind the scenes story of building a web app in 2021. I'm John Buda, a software engineer. And I'm Justin Jackson. I do product and marketing follow along as we build transistor.fm. Alright. It's been a while. Lots of stuff has happened. Busy couple of weeks in podcasting Ruby on Rails land, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of lots of things we're we could talk about. I think we should at least touch on the base camp fiasco, partly because, well, you and I both have friends at base camp. Yep. You live in Chicago, and base camp's a big part of the tech scene there. I've worked a day at base camp. They they tried to hire me a long time ago. And, I've definitely been friendly with Jason and David, and they've also been, advisors for Transistor. Yeah. We've had Jason on the show a couple times. And I'll say, I'm pretty disappointed in Jason and David. I think you don't have 20 of your best people quit for innocuous reasons. Yeah. Some of these people who've been there fifteen years, some of these folks are just, you know, quiet, hardworking people, who don't wanna stand out, don't wanna stick out, aren't trying to, you know, create problems for themselves or anyone else. Yeah. And so I publicly, this has been made into, you know, the media and the Twittersphere is making this about whether or not people should be allowed to talk about politics at work. I think that's a good discussion to have, but this is not about talking about politics at work. Yeah. There's yeah. Clearly, there's something else going on, and they hit a nerve with employees, and the employees didn't feel comfortable working there anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't necessarily disagree with the things they're trying to do, you know, limiting talk of certain things if it's causing problems in the in the at work. I mean, I can understand that. But, yeah, it's a it's a tough position for everyone in there to be in. I mean, I I feel for everyone on both sides. Like Yeah. Well, I I feel less for David and Jason. Yeah. That's to me, this is about leadership. Publishing publicly, a policy change like that, first of all, you don't need to do that. Yeah. I don't really understand. It's like You can keep you can you can with grace and patience, which are both leadership attributes, you can figure things out with your employees. It's not going to be always fun. It's not going to be easy. And, you know, working with people is messy. Yeah. And that's just the way it is. There's no way to as soon as you become a leader, now you're that's your life now. You're gonna have human interaction with real human beings who are dynamic and all …